TerryFuchwit Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 55 minutes ago, Zarley said: Dr. Glover never would have "gobbed off" on social media if Ashford and co had taken her views on testing on board last autumn. Her expert knowledge was ignored. I'll remind you that she was proven right when we had to lockdown in January. Half the Isle of Man said a lack of testing was a problem. You hardly need to be RG to work that out. Going public everytime you don't get your own way isnt going to encourage government to engage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Newbie said: I don't think that Dr Glover has ever offered to do all genomics testing for free. She may want to correct me if I am wrong, but what she tweeted on 15th Jan was Just watched the briefing. No genome results yet after 2 weeks. If @iomgov @hettyetty get in touch I will sequence all the positive cases to date since NYE for free and link/cluster the transmission chains of those cases FOR FREE within 48 hours. All they have to do is ask. No mention of providing an ongoing free service, and in fairness why should there be. Taxagenomics is a commercial lab, and has to make money in order to continue trading. I am not saying that is her primary motivation in this situation, but presumably there would be some commercial gain for her company. . Yes that's right. You can't put the cart before the horse. If you have a commercial proposition you. 1. Do you research and see if there is a market. 2. If there is, you invest in what is needed to provide the service. 3. You offer the service. It's not the other way around. As I see it, if there was an accredited laboratory on the Isle of Man that could do genomic testing at a cost less than a UK laboratory and with the added bonus of a faster turnaround then IOM government would be in breach of its own FINREGS. I suspect though that this is not the situation. In the world of laboratory testing, accreditation is everything. It doesn't come cheap. I can't see how any laboratory that only gets occasional work could be viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Newbie said: I don't think that Dr Glover has ever offered to do all genomics testing for free. She may want to correct me if I am wrong, but what she tweeted on 15th Jan was Just watched the briefing. No genome results yet after 2 weeks. If @iomgov @hettyetty get in touch I will sequence all the positive cases to date since NYE for free and link/cluster the transmission chains of those cases FOR FREE within 48 hours. All they have to do is ask. No mention of providing an ongoing free service, and in fairness why should there be. Taxagenomics is a commercial lab, and has to make money in order to continue trading. I am not saying that is her primary motivation in this situation, but presumably there would be some commercial gain for her company. . Well, there was a precedent set until October or so. Which was that reagents were being supplied at cost, and Dr G was being paid bank rate to work in their lab, primarily to be covered by DHSC’s liability insurance etc. That all changed when DHSC and Dr G fell out. So it is plausible that this would be done at cost, for the opportunity to use the data. Assuming genomics results are being supplied at cost, the biggest tangible benefit is PR. But whichever way you shake that headline, “Manx company accurately tracks outbreak using real-time genomics” or “Using genomics to help maintain elimination of COVID-19 on the Isle of Man”, it’s also pretty good for the Island’s PR too. Academically, there is likely a lot of value in being able to follow the early stages of an outbreak too. Most places that can follow it, don’t operate under such a scale where an outbreak has a handful of people at once. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Gladys said: I wonder how many small towns in the UK also have a genomics expert willing to help at cost price? Who was instrumental in setting up our "world leading" test facility, when other places were floundering? But, because she was a bit mouthy, was sidelined at a very crucial time. Meanwhile, the IOMG has been courting exactly that kind of business, as a way of diversifying our economy. But, no we won't exploit that sector, so what message does that send out? Yep, we are the place for biomed development, but would we touch it with a barge pole? Nah, too iffy. I'm afraid I don't get this at all. Firstly is was free offer and not cost and secondly if it's an economic opportunity why isn't it taken? I suspect it's because it isn't. The government cannot deny giving business because they are sulking, they can only do it because the service doesn't meet the minimum requirement or is not economically competitive. If we had an emergency the situation would be different, but I guess government view is that we don't have an emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: Well, there was a precedent set until October or so. Which was that reagents were being supplied at cost, and Dr G was being paid bank rate to work in their lab, primarily to be covered by DHSC’s liability insurance etc. That all changed when DHSC and Dr G fell out. So it is plausible that this would be done at cost, for the opportunity to use the data. Assuming genomics results are being supplied at cost, the biggest tangible benefit is PR. But whichever way you shake that headline, “Manx company accurately tracks outbreak using real-time genomics” or “Using genomics to help maintain elimination of COVID-19 on the Isle of Man”, it’s also pretty good for the Island’s PR too. Academically, there is likely a lot of value in being able to follow the early stages of an outbreak too. Most places that can follow it, don’t operate under such a scale where an outbreak has a handful of people at once. That's a fair observation. Using the word cost is dangerous though. Cost sounds good but is that cost a high, medium or low value. Would that cost include gaining accreditation. There are things we don't know here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: Assuming genomics results are being supplied at cost Being supplied at cost is different to being supplied free. It depends what you mean by cost. Is that the cost of the reagents, plus the proportionate costs of running a lab, plus the costs of labour to perform the tests, plus the costs of interpreting the test results etc. etc. Surely that is what any commercial operation does all the time? The alternative is that Taxagenomics lose a certain amount of money on every test they perform in return for being allowed to use the data they generate. I have no idea what discussions have or have not taken place between Taxagenomics and the Government, but if the government were to conduct any other business in that way, and to award work to a company based on a tweet offering 'free' services, we would all be crying foul. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 A commercial operation will also add profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, The Old Git said: A commercial operation will also add profit I have never received an itemised invoice from a commercial operation for any work that lists profit as a separate item. The profit is the difference between what they charge for providing a service less the cost incurred. But even if the two are exactly the same, so that no 'profit' is made, the people providing the service have still made money if the costs incurred includes the cost of their labour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) I think the local genomics testing budget was likely diverted to pay for skirting boards in the booths at the airport hub. Edited February 21, 2021 by madmanxpilot 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Newbie said: the people providing the service have still made money if the costs incurred includes the cost of their labour. Only if your employees work for nothing. Otherwise the cost of their labour will be paid out in wages, NI etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, TerryFuchwit said: Half the Isle of Man said a lack of testing was a problem. You hardly need to be RG to work that out. Going public everytime you don't get your own way isnt going to encourage government to engage. It seems to work for MHK's, so why shouldn't it work for private individuals. When the Government doesn't listen and won't believe what you tell them in private. Tell me fuckwit what are you suppose to do. We don't have the opportunity to go to Government briefing and let Chris Robertshaw pick up on our suggestions and take the mantle. Have you ever tried, I have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisy Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Newbie said: I don't think that Dr Glover has ever offered to do all genomics testing for free. She may want to correct me if I am wrong, but what she tweeted on 15th Jan was Just watched the briefing. No genome results yet after 2 weeks. If @iomgov @hettyetty get in touch I will sequence all the positive cases to date since NYE for free and link/cluster the transmission chains of those cases FOR FREE within 48 hours. All they have to do is ask. No mention of providing an ongoing free service, and in fairness why should there be. Taxagenomics is a commercial lab, and has to make money in order to continue trading. I am not saying that is her primary motivation in this situation, but presumably there would be some commercial gain for her company. . The offer of free and quick testing at that point should have been taken up. Instead there was radio silence and well over a week before the results came back from Liverpool. Does sending samples to Liverpool not come at a cost? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Old Git said: Only if your employees work for nothing. Otherwise the cost of their labour will be paid out in wages, NI etc. That is why I said it depends what is meant by being supplied at cost. If the cost includes the cost of labour to carry out the work (plus NI etc), as well as the cost of running the service and (in the case concerned) interpreting the results, then everyone's labour is covered in the 'cost' so everyone concerned is making a living and the company isn't losing money. If doing it at cost actually means doing it at less cost than the company faces (due to labour costs, insurance costs etc. etc. not being included), then the company will be losing money, which isn't a great business model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) We dont need genomics anymore . We have "Mystic Henny" 😆 https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/shorter-incubation-period-indicates-kent-variant-in-cluster/ Edited February 21, 2021 by Boris Johnson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, daisy said: The offer of free and quick testing at that point should have been taken up. Instead there was radio silence and well over a week before the results came back from Liverpool. Does sending samples to Liverpool not come at a cost? You may have a point, but I was responding to a post that was suggesting that Taxagenomics would provide all the genomics testing for free, which I don't think Dr Glover ever said (understandably). I have no idea about the costs of sending samples to Liverpool, but they are not a commercial organisation so they are probably not making profits on the testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.