IOM Covid removing restrictions

[woolley]

2 hours ago, Mr Newbie said:

His wife will be able to piss off a whole smaller island in about 9 months. No doubt they’ll be back. 

 

2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

Maybe the plan is to make the entire Jersey population move here. Should be a gong in it for her really.

Do they know who she is?

[Banker]

3 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

Two active cases as of today entering week 4 of open borders.

Hospitality booming, business travel resumed, residents enjoying family holidays all without the need of 14 day’s quarantine (isolation).

30,000 (or near as) tests completed.

Jersey seems like a very well ran & organised little Island.

Has Howie given any real reason for not testing arrivals other than to say it’s too costly which is easily overcome by making arrivals pay or quarantine 

[x-in-man]

Yes, he has stated the obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Why test arrivals, if, when you arrive you have to self isolate for 14 days.

if you test +ve you are going to have to self isolate for ... yeah, you guessed it - 14 days.  
 

Why waste the money on a test when you are going to have to self isolate anyway.

Seems simple enough to me.

[Roger Mexico]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

Has Howie given any real reason for not testing arrivals other than to say it’s too costly which is easily overcome by making arrivals pay or quarantine 

Of course not and it's not even that costly.  This came out in a Tynwald question to Watterson:

Quote

If he will estimate the cost of testing every person arriving on the Isle of Man for Covid-19?

At present, each real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test costs the Department of Health and Social Care £17.40, though we will soon be able to reduce this to £10.40. However, it would be reasonable to expect that providing staffing and facilities for testing at the ports would incur potentially significant additional cost.

It is also very difficult at this stage to predict what passenger numbers are likely to be as we enter Stage 4 of the Border Framework. This will be dependent on how many residents are wishing to travel off-Island and return, given the requirement to self-isolate for 14 days represents a significant commitment.

It is also important to appreciate that our testing facility currently has a capacity of around 200 tests per day. If passenger numbers per day are higher than that, testing every arrival could introduce very significant additional costs to scale-up the capacity of the facility.

Now there may be problems if massive amounts of scaling up has to be done, but the facility is only operating at around 60 tests a day at the moment and I've a feeling that 200 can be increased, though it would require extra shifts.  Failing that there is a lot of spare capacity in the UK (which is why Jersey can get its tests done), though this would presumably be more expensive.

I suspect Quayle is doing his usual thing of being afraid to make a move unless it exactly copies what the English are doing except a few days later.  Also a regime of testing on arrival might end up being applied to Terribly Important People, who we know should be exempt from such things.  And there's the magical thinking which means that if you don't test for something then it can't be there.

The real objection to testing on arrival is the one about a false sense of security - people, especially in the early stages of infection, may test negative on arrival and develop their infectiousness later.  That's not an excuse to abandon the idea, but care needs to taken over how people are restricted in early days after arrival and if re-testing is done.

[Banker]

45 minutes ago, x-in-man said:

Yes, he has stated the obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Why test arrivals, if, when you arrive you have to self isolate for 14 days.

if you test +ve you are going to have to self isolate for ... yeah, you guessed it - 14 days.  
 

Why waste the money on a test when you are going to have to self isolate anyway.

Seems simple enough to me.

Well you obviously don't have the half brain! The point of testing of arrivals is that you don't have to isolate for 14 days if negative which is the Jersey policy and lots of residents are asking why we can't adopt the same policy?

[x-in-man]

33 minutes ago, Banker said:

Well you obviously don't have the half brain! The point of testing of arrivals is that you don't have to isolate for 14 days if negative which is the Jersey policy and lots of residents are asking why we can't adopt the same policy?

That doesn’t fucking work, as he has said. You could test -ve on arrival and develop a few days later.

[Roger Mexico]

15 minutes ago, Banker said:

Well you obviously don't have the half brain! The point of testing of arrivals is that you don't have to isolate for 14 days if negative which is the Jersey policy and lots of residents are asking why we can't adopt the same policy?

Because (as I keep on pointing out) there are dangers in the "Test and hope it's OK" approach that Jersey has adopted.  There's a possibility that people will infect others before the result comes through and people may not test positive if they have only recently been infected.  And of course it requires those arriving to behave responsibly and follow the letter of some quite complex instructions before and after they arrive on the island.

To some extent Jersey's entry procedures admit this.  Limited freedom while waiting for the test is only restricted to those who have been only in Green status countries in the previous 14 days[1].  Those who have visited Orange countries have to isolate for 5 days and take another test, while those from Red-listed ones (such as the USA) have to quarantine for 14 days.

 

[1]  Yet again the Isle of Man seems to be omitted.  You wonder if various people who have put up with him at BIC meetings are terrified that Howard will turn up.

[Banker]

7 minutes ago, x-in-man said:

That doesn’t fucking work, as he has said. You could test -ve on arrival and develop a few days later.

But it obviously does as Jersey open for nearly 4 weeks & 2 positive cases!

[TheTeapot]

Golfer has gone back to work then...

Seriously, people WHINGING constantly should just pack up and fuck off. Put your house up for sale and do one. We're incredibly lucky to be here, NO MASKS. Borders have been loosened, just wait a while. People are utterly utterly stupid.

[thesultanofsheight]

2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Seriously, people WHINGING constantly should just pack up and fuck off. Put your house up for sale and do one. We're incredibly lucky to be here, NO MASKS. Borders have been loosened, just wait a while. People are utterly utterly stupid.

I’d support testing and tracking as genuinely it seems to be the proper way forward in the absence of a vaccine (which there will never be). It works well in Asia where they have multi million head populations and it works well elsewhere. We need to start getting our heads round it rather than perpetuate this portcullis mentality. But you’re right on the whinging in general. This island has done very well and if it had any sense it would relentlessly spin a negative into a positive and push business relocations. As you say no masks, no distancing, and no real inconveniences of any kind unlike the UK and most other places you could care to mention. Some politicians who people have said for years on here are shit have proved to not be shit and some have proved themselves to be thoroughly shit. Parts of government have excelled. Other parts have been lazy and shit. But the outcome here has been by far one of the best scenarios we could have projected. But it’s time to move on. The Guernsey link has been great for tourism and is dipping the toe in the water for other things that we need to start trying like mandatory testing instead as an alternative to self isolation. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[TheTeapot]

Its going to take ages to fix everything worldwide, cases are rising fast in parts of Spain and the UK have today said if you're coming back from there you need to isolate for 14 days. The Americas are completely fucked (although Canada is getting its shit together petty well now) and cases are flying up in the sub-continent and southern Africa. Most of Europe has mask wearing on public transport and stuff, no major events on still, lots of stuff still closed.

Just stay here and be happy for a bit, the test, track, trace thing will work across Europe slowly, they're coming back from a wild situation.

 

[thesultanofsheight]

1 minute ago, TheTeapot said:

Its going to take ages to fix everything worldwide, cases are rising fast in parts of Spain and the UK have today said if you're coming back from there you need to isolate for 14 days. 

Anyone traveling now for anything other than compassionate reasons or other essential things is just selfishly chancing it and so I agree with your basic point. But the fact is that we don’t have the resources to monitor self isolation. It’s a voluntary process albeit under the threat of imprisonment as per a few high profile cases. Personally I’d rather trust technology and a + or - test within 24 hours than an honesty system that government doesn’t have the resources to police. Especially since I see that 2,000 people have now applied for permits to move in and out. How on earth will they police 2,000 households self isolating when they can’t even police compliance now (I know several who have returned who received no calls of visits of any kind to check that they were self isolating)?  Asia has proved that testing works. You have mega cities like Hong Kong which have stayed largely COVID free despite borders largely being open purely down to testing and tracking apps. But western democracies don’t seem to like the concept of track and trace technology. 

[HeliX]

20 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Its going to take ages to fix everything worldwide, cases are rising fast in parts of Spain and the UK have today said if you're coming back from there you need to isolate for 14 days. The Americas are completely fucked (although Canada is getting its shit together petty well now) and cases are flying up in the sub-continent and southern Africa. Most of Europe has mask wearing on public transport and stuff, no major events on still, lots of stuff still closed.

Just stay here and be happy for a bit, the test, track, trace thing will work across Europe slowly, they're coming back from a wild situation.

 

I often think this is the best place in the world to live, but it's pretty indisputable at present. Rain aside.

[pongo]

10 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

You have mega cities like Hong Kong which have stayed largely COVID free despite borders largely being open purely down to testing and tracking apps.

Hong Kong reports 1-day high of 118 new cases - AP 23/07/20

Quote

HONG KONG — Hong Kong’s coronavirus infections hit a record high on Thursday with 118 new cases.

Of those, 111 were locally transmitted while authorities are unable to trace the source of others.

Hong Kong now has a total of 2,250 confirmed cases with 14 deaths.

To combat the outbreak, the Hong Kong government has made masks compulsory on public transport and in public indoor areas. Health officials have urged people to stay home as much as possible, especially the elderly and those with underlying conditions.

Social distancing measures have also been tightened in light of the worsening situation, with gatherings of more than four people banned. Businesses such as gyms and amusement parks are also temporarily shuttered, while eateries and restaurants can only operate at a limited capacity.

 

[thesultanofsheight]

25 minutes ago, pongo said:

Hong Kong reports 1-day high of 118 new cases - AP 23/07/20

You do understand it’s a city with a population of 7,500,000 people. Not Ramsey? I’ll leave you to work out what the fraction of 118 out of 7,500,000 is.

And 14 deaths for a city of 7.5m so far when we had 24 for a population of 85,000. I’d say per head of population that’s pretty phenomenal. Testing and tracing really seems to be effective even in a city of 7,500,000 people living almost on top of each other. What you will also probably find is that most of those 118 cases would have been found by testing before anyone was actually at risk of transmitting. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by thesultanofsheight