IOM Covid removing restrictions

[woolley]

18 hours ago, Anyone said:

Well  suppose in the end how much we need to spend on keeping old fat people with multiple problems who will die soon anyway alive. Harsh but true. Especially when they are double incontinent and have no idea who the are. I’d want to be put down

 

 

18 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Feck off. You will get older too and just how will you feel when you get folk say the same about you? Get a life and grow up

If he has no idea who he is, he won't feel anything when folk say the same about him, will he?

I see this was getting a bit heated, but there is a serious discussion to be had. I would want to be put down too, I'm afraid. Were I in that state, the chances are that my future, such as it was, could be measured in weeks rather than years in any case. What is the point in clinging to the wreckage in such a pitiful state? I certainly wouldn't want the young and healthy to have their lives put on hold indefinitely with all of the ramifications, financial, mental and otherwise that it brings for them just to keep me dangling by a thread in the twilight zone of a living death. I don't think that is hateful or uncaring Actually, I think it's the opposite and in the best interests of all.

[Banker]

Guernsey gearing up to ease border restrictions in September 

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/07/26/were-not-going-for-open-borders/

 

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, Banker said:

Guernsey gearing up to ease border restrictions in September 

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/07/26/were-not-going-for-open-borders/

 

 

‘We’re not going for open borders’

[Banker]

3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

 

‘We’re not going for open borders’

Going for no quarantine if you read article, same as we would like! Easing restrictions as I said.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Banker

[wrighty]

17 minutes ago, woolley said:

 

If he has no idea who he is, he won't feel anything when folk say the same about him, will he?

I see this was getting a bit heated, but there is a serious discussion to be had. I would want to be put down too, I'm afraid. Were I in that state, the chances are that my future, such as it was, could be measured in weeks rather than years in any case. What is the point in clinging to the wreckage in such a pitiful state? I certainly wouldn't want the young and healthy to have their lives put on hold indefinitely with all of the ramifications, financial, mental and otherwise that it brings for them just to keep me dangling by a thread in the twilight zone of a living death. I don't think that is hateful or uncaring Actually, I think it's the opposite and in the best interests of all.

In my view there are 3 scenarios to consider, only 2 of which need decisions. 
 

1. You drop dead, having been previously well mentally and physically. This is probably the best way out, just make sure your nearest and dearest know where you’ve stashed their inheritance. 
    
2. Your body packs up but your mind remains.  In this situation I would like to be able to decide for myself if I’d had enough, and have the option of a quick dignified exit. 
    
3. Your mind packs up. In this situation I’d like to be able to decide, in advance, what criteria need to be met before I get “put down”. Something along the lines of being unable to look after my own bodily functions and not knowing who I am, unable to recognise friends and family etc. 
    

Society does need to debate this. How we provide long term care is going to be a growing problem, and it won’t be solved by the “all life is sacred and must be preserved for as long as possible at all costs” brigade.

[TheTeapot]

We?

Personally I'd prefer not to have to wear a mask, or social distance, or any of that bollocks. Seen all the idiots who've gone to Spain kicking off? Bunch of pricks. Cases ticking up all over Europe now, and in the UK too. Not exponential growth but the UK returned tests have gone up a few each day since the low point on 5th July.

It is absolutely correct to continue to be cautious, in the immortal words of Dj Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince "Tick tick tick BOOM"

[woolley]

4 minutes ago, wrighty said:

In my view there are 3 scenarios to consider, only 2 of which need decisions. 
 

1. You drop dead, having been previously well mentally and physically. This is probably the best way out, just make sure your nearest and dearest know where you’ve stashed their inheritance. 
    
2. Your body packs up but your mind remains.  In this situation I would like to be able to decide for myself if I’d had enough, and have the option of a quick dignified exit. 
    
3. Your mind packs up. In this situation I’d like to be able to decide, in advance, what criteria need to be met before I get “put down”. Something along the lines of being unable to look after my own bodily functions and not knowing who I am, unable to recognise friends and family etc. 
    

Society does need to debate this. How we provide long term care is going to be a growing problem, and it won’t be solved by the “all life is sacred and must be preserved for as long as possible at all costs” brigade.

Yes. A large number of people seem to have a massive blind spot about facing this, and I really don't understand why. There was nothing sacred about the state I observed my dear, gentle  mother endure for years. Nothing at all.

[the stinking enigma]

3 is the one I fear. Hopefully euthanasia will be in place by then 

[Nom de plume]

52 minutes ago, Banker said:

Guernsey gearing up to ease border restrictions in September 

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/07/26/were-not-going-for-open-borders/

 

Which is exactly what we (well, the sensible, reasoned individuals amongst us) have been suggesting for quite some time.

It won’t be an open border,  it will be a border with testing on arrival to mitigate the transmission of the virus.

We only have two entry points on the Island, the temporary facilities needed should be fairly straight forward to erect & implement.

The cost, if an issue, should be the responsibility of the passenger (or certainly a proportion of the charge).

The current situation is actually worse one could argue. The fact that 2,000+ persons or let’s say 1,500 (for arguments sake) are travelling on permits then returning to Manx homes where realistically they won’t be self isolating properly for 14 days (as other household members are free to go about their business as normal) presents more of a risk than testing on entry & a follow up.

There is no easy way to deal with the matter but deal with it they must.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Nom de plume

[woolley]

21 hours ago, pongo said:

Google it.

................those people who argue that science is just a point of view?

Of course science is not JUST a point of view, but it does embrace many dissenting views that are incompatible with each other. And established science is often usurped by new science. There were times when the Geocentric model of the universe held sway and was defended mightily against the Heliocentric model. Now we know that neither the Earth nor the Sun are anything special in the cosmos. Newton changed everything and Einstein did so again. That's the nature of science. There might even be a strong consensus today, but nothing is ever cast in stone. It might all be swept away like a sandcastle on the beach at the next tide.

On Covid there is huge diversity of views among scientists on all aspects. Over the weekend, I was reading of a letter signed by 200 of them claiming that the infection can be spread by aerosol droplets less than 5 micrometres in diameter that remain aloft longer than larger drops from coughs and sneezes, and travel further. They were calling for additional measures to combat this. Later came rebuttals from other scientific sources claiming this was alarmist. This is still in its infancy. There are no easy answers.

[Utah 01]

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

We only have two entry points on the Island, the temporary facilities needed should be fairly straight forward to erect & implement.
 

You cannot be serious!  It will take months of planning and years to  build left to the Parish Council.  'Fairly straight forward' to the rest of the universe = a project on a par to building the pyramids to the DoI.  How long have you lived here?

[Banker]

1 minute ago, Utah 01 said:

You cannot be serious!  It will take months of planning and years to  build left to the Parish Council.  'Fairly straight forward' to the rest of the universe = a project on a par to building the pyramids to the DoI.  How long have you lived here?

Well they managed to muck up Glencrutchery road overnight !!

[WTF]

5 hours ago, wrighty said:

In my view there are 3 scenarios to consider, only 2 of which need decisions. 
 

1. You drop dead, having been previously well mentally and physically. This is probably the best way out, just make sure your nearest and dearest know where you’ve stashed their inheritance. 
    
2. Your body packs up but your mind remains.  In this situation I would like to be able to decide for myself if I’d had enough, and have the option of a quick dignified exit. 
    
3. Your mind packs up. In this situation I’d like to be able to decide, in advance, what criteria need to be met before I get “put down”. Something along the lines of being unable to look after my own bodily functions and not knowing who I am, unable to recognise friends and family etc. 
    

Society does need to debate this. How we provide long term care is going to be a growing problem, and it won’t be solved by the “all life is sacred and must be preserved for as long as possible at all costs” brigade.

there'd be a few seen off in 3,  i've heard quite a few local big wigs not getting their own way ask people ' do you know who i am? '

Edited July 27, 2020 by WTF

[pongo]

3 hours ago, wrighty said:

In my view there are 3 scenarios to consider, only 2 of which need decisions. 
 

1. You drop dead, having been previously well mentally and physically. This is probably the best way out, just make sure your nearest and dearest know where you’ve stashed their inheritance. 
    
2. Your body packs up but your mind remains.  In this situation I would like to be able to decide for myself if I’d had enough, and have the option of a quick dignified exit. 
    
3. Your mind packs up. In this situation I’d like to be able to decide, in advance, what criteria need to be met before I get “put down”. Something along the lines of being unable to look after my own bodily functions and not knowing who I am, unable to recognise friends and family etc.

Obviously there are other scenarios. Including, for example:

4. You are diagnosed with an illness which will likely kill you - because typically it does. But for which there is some vague outside chance of successful treatment - especially if you can quickly get yourself to a UK specialist hospital. But the treatment is nasty and may also shorten your remaining life. And the breakthrough treatments are not yet available here.

Your family desperately want you to try anything - they want everything to carry in the same - but you'd rather just let nature take its course.

Tough choice right?

[pongo]

Actually - from an unselfish perspective your 3 scenarios fade into irrelevance @wrighty. Because what matters is the impact on other people. They are the ones who have to deal with it.