IOM Covid removing restrictions

[thesultanofsheight]

4 hours ago, woolley said:

I see this was getting a bit heated, but there is a serious discussion to be had. I would want to be put down too, I'm afraid. Were I in that state, the chances are that my future, such as it was, could be measured in weeks rather than years in any case. What is the point in clinging to the wreckage in such a pitiful state? I certainly wouldn't want the young and healthy to have their lives put on hold indefinitely with all of the ramifications, financial, mental and otherwise that it brings for them just to keep me dangling by a thread in the twilight zone of a living death. I don't think that is hateful or uncaring Actually, I think it's the opposite and in the best interests of all.

I completely agree. When you’re old and vulnerable anything can pick up off. That’s just life. Many might not want to hear that but it’s the reality of life once you pass a certain state of age and health. If it’s not COVID then it could be a stroke, a heart attack, cancer, or even a dose of the common or garden flu that sees you off. It seems counter intuitive to lock everyone in their homes for months on end and crash the economy over a cliff when the statistics are clearly showing that outside of isolated cases this is only going to kill people in vulnerable groups. Almost all who sadly died in the IOM were in the age group where they were in care which really is end of life care isn’t it? I think I read somewhere that the average residency span in a care home is something like 18 months before something gets you. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[TheTeapot]

Tell that to the 57 year old ex copper judo coach.

[thesultanofsheight]

5 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Tell that to the 57 year old ex copper judo coach.

There are isolated cases as I said in lower age groups but largely as the Jersey age related data shows. It’s the older age groups where the vast majority of deaths have occurred and where most of the risks seem to be centered. That’s a fact, 

[pongo]

24 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

There are isolated cases as I said in lower age groups but largely as the Jersey age related data shows. It’s the older age groups where the vast majority of deaths have occurred and where most of the risks seem to be centered. That’s a fact, 

No. Jersey is far too small a dataset from which to extrapolate any useful conclusions.

That actually is a fact.

[piebaps]

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

Bigger dataset here

[wrighty]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

No. Jersey is far too small a dataset from which to extrapolate any useful conclusions.

That actually is a fact.

Correct. But what SoS said was also correct, his mistake was referencing Jersey’s figures and not, say, USA’s. 

[thesultanofsheight]

30 minutes ago, piebaps said:

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

Bigger dataset here

Which says almost exactly the same thing 

Edited July 27, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[woolley]

1 hour ago, pongo said:

Obviously there are other scenarios. Including, for example:

4. You are diagnosed with an illness which will likely kill you - because typically it does. But for which there is some vague outside chance of successful treatment - especially if you can quickly get yourself to a UK specialist hospital. But the treatment is nasty and may also shorten your remaining life. And the breakthrough treatments are not yet available here.

Your family desperately want you to try anything - they want everything to carry in the same - but you'd rather just let nature take its course.

Tough choice right?

 

1 hour ago, pongo said:

Actually - from an unselfish perspective your 3 scenarios fade into irrelevance @wrighty. Because what matters is the impact on other people. They are the ones who have to deal with it.

"Other people", by which I assume you mean nearest and dearest, are going to have to deal with the impact anyway if their loved one is this close to the end, or as in my mother's case, they have been dealing with a torturous living death situation for years already. Life is finite for all of us. There will come a point for many where it is no longer worth living. Often, nothing can alter that, not even a trip to a UK specialist hospital. Some people just refuse to countenance this certainty, so we cannot make progress.

[wrighty]

2 hours ago, pongo said:

Obviously there are other scenarios. Including, for example:

4. You are diagnosed with an illness which will likely kill you - because typically it does. But for which there is some vague outside chance of successful treatment - especially if you can quickly get yourself to a UK specialist hospital. But the treatment is nasty and may also shorten your remaining life. And the breakthrough treatments are not yet available here.

Your family desperately want you to try anything - they want everything to carry in the same - but you'd rather just let nature take its course.

Tough choice right?

Covered by scenario 2. Your mind’s ok, you get to choose. 

[woolley]

1 hour ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I think I read somewhere that the average residency span in a care home is something like 18 months before something gets you. 

That's right. Sadly for her, my mother almost doubled that. She was a very proud and dignified lady and, ironically, she had always said that she would hate to spend her last days in the very type of establishment she finished up in. She was adamant about it all of her life. She would rather have been dead than lose every last shred of character, personality, physical capacity and dignity, unreachable in that sealed off existence somewhere between life and death. If the option had existed, I would have been content to sign a document for her release from suffering, and I would have slept easy knowing I had acted in the only kind and loving way that could still benefit her in any sense.

[Banker]

30 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Which says almost exactly the same thing 

Excellent graph, so it shows all the younger population are suffering from the fallout from COVID & lockdown to protect the older population who have the protected income.

[thesultanofsheight]

2 minutes ago, Banker said:

Excellent graph, so it shows all the younger population are suffering from the fallout from COVID & lockdown to protect the older population who have the protected income.

Yes I think most people of sound mind would read it that way. 

[dilligaf]

11 minutes ago, woolley said:

That's right. Sadly for her, my mother almost doubled that. She was a very proud and dignified lady and, ironically, she had always said that she would hate to spend her last days in the very type of establishment she finished up in. She was adamant about it all of her life. She would rather have been dead than lose every last shred of character, personality, physical capacity and dignity, unreachable in that sealed off existence somewhere between life and death. If the option had existed, I would have been content to sign a document for her release from suffering, and I would have slept easy knowing I had acted in the only kind and loving way that could still benefit her in any sense.

I am not going to relate this to any family member, but i think I once told Wooley about our mothers time in a care home.

I worked for and looked after an elderly lady for a few years  ( along with some paid for carers )and she ended up in a lovely care home  Elder Grange for two years before her death.

  I thought that a lady of her standing and background would suffer in a home, as she was very well off and had lived a rather privileged life. She had dementia and  Parkinsons so was not always aware of her surroundings etc. Some days she hardly recognised me until we chatted, then sometimes she got confused about our relationship.

The poor soul was bed bound for two whole years, but in her mind had turned the clock back about 45 years and related stories to me about what was happening in her life and the places she had been the day before and how her husband had been a bit naughty etc.

I often thought and said that that was no life, yet in her mind she was reliving her past and was very happy in that world. You, me or anyone else can have no idea of just how much pleasure she got from her "fantasy" life. She was happy with her lot. She had fantastic care from all the staff there and was, up until her passing happy with her lot.

How can anyone say that she should have been put down, or that her contracting a fatal virus was just life and no big deal. She was a real person with a real life.

Compare that to the hundreds of thieves, thugs, rapists, murderers, drug dealers and perverts, who are allowed to live their lives, after little punishment.

Who do you think should be put down now ?

[woolley]

Yes. It is scandalous that the young, fit and healthy have been disadvantaged to the extent they have. The old and vulnerable should have been segregated as best they could be and the young and fit allowed to get on with life. The risk to the younger working population is no more than the risk to them of other diseases.

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, woolley said:

Yes. It is scandalous that the young, fit and healthy have been disadvantaged to the extent they have. The old and vulnerable should have been segregated as best they could be and the young and fit allowed to get on with life. The risk to the younger working population is no more than the risk to them of other diseases.

What's the age cut off there then? 60 and you're locked up? Mental. I had you down as more intelligent than this. Why have the cases of the virus exploded in the southern US? Is it probably mostly because of exactly the attitude 'it only kills the old so we can just do what we want'? Oh, yes, yes it is.