IOM Covid removing restrictions

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Dr Glover has provided a qualified, alternative view. She has effectively been a qualified Opposition who has questioned the Government line.

IoMG doesn't "do" opposition, from Tynwald down. It's not accustomed to it, doesn't like it and its immediate reaction is/was fairly standard in trying to ignore it in the first instance and then when it didn't go away, attempt to discredit it (look at the DBC/Tribunal verdict reaction for general attitude, for example)

It's a microcosm example of the way Govt operates and it's been brought out into the light now which is something else that Govt is not used to, its policy is usually to stamp it out by bullying ("negative press"?) or buy it off to keep it quiet.

This is new ground for the Govt now against a qualified and worthy opponent. They are going to be compiling their reactions "on the hoof" now which are going to appear fairly puerile to those interested I'd suggest.

 

There are certainly some serious charges being levelled against the Government who I would say are entitled to a right of reply. 

I think before anyone prejudges, or suggests those replies will be puerile it would seem sensible to see what they are.

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I think before anyone prejudges, or suggests those replies will be puerile it would seem sensible to see what they are.

They've already started, in their childish handling of the letter matter, including its "display" and alleged shredding.

[Newbie]

1 hour ago, Dr. Grumpy said:

Although the general consensus is that Doyle is a 'good guy', he has form acting as an enforcer for 'the department'.

Looking at the decision of the employment tribunal, it appears that he went the extra mile (their words) to try to find a resolution to what was an intolerable situation in the lab, rather than being an enforcer.

[Uhtred]

2 hours ago, Uhtred said:

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Uhtred
Deleted - wrong bloody thread!

[code99]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Nobody with any sense would try to claim that NZs low death rate was significantly due to genomic sequencing!

They locked down early and hard. Quarantine in quarantine hotels. It's a county 1000 miles + from anywhere else. Also they have a totally different lifestyle to Europeans and and economy that can keep working in isolation. They have a very low population density, even in Auckland and Wellington. 

I'm not denying they might have used it to control the very small outbreaks they have had recently but let's not get silly and think it's the main weapon in their armoury or the reason for their low numbers.

I’m not saying that NZs low death rate was significantly due to genomic testing. Far from it. The main reason they have a low Covid infection, and consequently a very low death rate is because they have a competent government who have taken a number of different appropriate measures to keep Covid under control. Just like the Isle of Man, New Zealand is an Island Nation which quickly closed its borders when Covid exploded. The idea that ‘they have a totally different lifestyle to Europeans’ is simply not true. Similarly, the idea that Auckland and Wellington have low population densities is not true either. The population densities of these cities are ten times that of the Isle of Man.

And New Zealand is not the only Island Nation with an excellent Covid record either. The Faeroe Islands are another example of an Island Nation that governed itself brilliantly during the pandemic. They have a population which is similar to ours (49k v 85k) and so far, they had a grand total of 661 cases and only 1 death.  We have had 1500+ cases and 29 deaths. The big difference is that, very quickly, they put in place a regime where on average 1,000 people per day were tested, and everybody entering their country was tested on arrival.

From the outset of this pandemic the WHO have made it very clear to all countries that the main success driver in combating Covid would be to test as many people as possible. My understanding is that in Australia, anther Island Nation, all their residents have to do to get a Covid test is to turn up at a testing centre and say they want one. The IOMG largely chose not to follow the WHO’s advice. E.g. it was not until the end of December 2020 that they implemented 1/6/13 testing regime for the arrivals.

But there are reasons to hope that smart common senses will prevail here. On 23 March 2021 Tynwald agreed that ‘genomic testing is vital in the fight against Covid-19’. They also acknowledged that whilst genomic sequencing is currently being carried out in Liverpool (presumably at some considerable cost to Manx taxpayers), the IOMG had rejected an offer of free genomic testing from a ‘Manx company’. I wonder why they rejected that offer? 

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, code99 said:

I’m not saying that NZs low death rate was significantly due to genomic testing. Far from it. The main reason they have a low Covid infection, and consequently a very low death rate is because they have a competent government who have taken a number of different appropriate measures to keep Covid under control. Just like the Isle of Man, New Zealand is an Island Nation which quickly closed its borders when Covid exploded. The idea that ‘they have a totally different lifestyle to Europeans’ is simply not true. Similarly, the idea that Auckland and Wellington have low population densities is not true either. The population densities of these cities are ten times that of the Isle of Man.

And New Zealand is not the only Island Nation with an excellent Covid record either. The Faeroe Islands are another example of an Island Nation that governed itself brilliantly during the pandemic. They have a population which is similar to ours (49k v 85k) and so far, they had a grand total of 661 cases and only 1 death.  We have had 1500+ cases and 29 deaths. The big difference is that, very quickly, they put in place a regime where on average 1,000 people per day were tested, and everybody entering their country was tested on arrival.

From the outset of this pandemic the WHO have made it very clear to all countries that the main success driver in combating Covid would be to test as many people as possible. My understanding is that in Australia, anther Island Nation, all their residents have to do to get a Covid test is to turn up at a testing centre and say they want one. The IOMG largely chose not to follow the WHO’s advice. E.g. it was not until the end of December 2020 that they implemented 1/6/13 testing regime for the arrivals.

But there are reasons to hope that smart common senses will prevail here. On 23 March 2021 Tynwald agreed that ‘genomic testing is vital in the fight against Covid-19’. They also acknowledged that whilst genomic sequencing is currently being carried out in Liverpool (presumably at some considerable cost to Manx taxpayers), the IOMG had rejected an offer of free genomic testing from a ‘Manx company’. I wonder why they rejected that offer? 

I think they have said the Liverpool genomic testing is free.  But as I understand it, it does not give the analysis that Dr Glover has offered; it gives the raw data but not the interpretation allowing for confirmation of lines of transmission etc. 

But we don't need that apparently.  If, when the SP case emerged, there had been widespread testing and genomic sequencing, the path of the virus could have been shown and a more nuanced approach taken  to lockdown. We would have known sooner if there was more than one index case and so lines of transmission.

We also should have known that the main vector was the schools and tested everyone connected and selectively isolate, rather than shut everything, even those sectors with no school connection and little infection. 

It may also help in the unknown source cases, they became infected somehow.

 

[Cambon]

4 hours ago, Banker said:

Think you’re talking bollocks as usual and hoping lockdowns continue forever. CDC in USA made decisions on travel.

Cyprus have already announced vaccinated tourists can visit from 1st May so you’re non existent family there obviously don’t read the news. Here’s the news for your family! https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/06/eu-indecision-led-cyprus-to-allow-in-uk-visitors-says-minister

Heres a bit more on vaccinations passport for you , try not to panic 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56625307

Sure, I know what Cyprus has said, but since virtually nobody is vaccinated, there will be virtually no tourists. The top notch hotel that my relative works in is not opening up until at least July. A cousin of mine and his wife, also living in Cyprus, and are hoping for their first vaccination in the next few weeks. Both in the over 60s category. This shows their vaccination program is not going too well either. As for new cases, there are still hundreds every day. 

With regards to the USA, you obviously have no idea. There are plenty of internal flights, but hardly anything international. That is not going to change any time soon.

Do you really think I want to be in lockdown? I have never wanted it, and think this one is totally unnecessary. But we are where we are and managing our way out of it is going to be difficult. However, I think you need to stop reading the media hype and look at what is really going on in the world. The two don't match up. 

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Nobody with any sense would try to claim that NZs low death rate was significantly due to genomic sequencing!

They locked down early and hard. Quarantine in quarantine hotels. It's a county 1000 miles + from anywhere else. Also they have a totally different lifestyle to Europeans and and economy that can keep working in isolation. They have a very low population density, even in Auckland and Wellington. 

I'm not denying they might have used it to control the very small outbreaks they have had recently but let's not get silly and think it's the main weapon in their armoury or the reason for their low numbers.

No one is claiming that New Zealand's success is only due to genomic sequencing.  But the point has been made to you repeatedly that it is part of a set of interacting things that can be used in response to Covid, especially alongside track and trace, and New Zealand has done this very effectively.  I've posted numerous links over the last six months or so to their very informative, speedy and detailed media releases that their government puts out and how often these mention the use of genomic testing.

Incidentally the population density of Greater Auckland is 310 people per sq kilometre (the urban area is 2490).  The Isle of Man is 149.  New Zealand is the 28th most urbanised country in the world. The reason why some countries have the reputation for wide open spaces is that most of the population lives in towns.  Iceland is number 11.

[Roger Mexico]

19 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Do you really think I want to be in lockdown? I have never wanted it, and think this one is totally unnecessary. 

I don't think this lockdown is unnecessary - the way that hospital admissions climbed to 23 (a fortnight after lockdown came in) should tell us that.  But it was almost certainly mostly avoidable.

[TerryFuchwit]

48 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I think they have said the Liverpool genomic testing is free.  But as I understand it, it does not give the analysis that Dr Glover has offered; it gives the raw data but not the interpretation allowing for confirmation of lines of transmission etc. 

But we don't need that apparently.  If, when the SP case emerged, there had been widespread testing and genomic sequencing, the path of the virus could have been shown and a more nuanced approach taken  to lockdown. We would have known sooner if there was more than one index case and so lines of transmission.

We also should have known that the main vector was the schools and tested everyone connected and selectively isolate, rather than shut everything, even those sectors with no school connection and little infection. 

It may also help in the unknown source cases, they became infected somehow.

 

Need to be careful with those assumptions or "understanding ".

Anyone not knowing better could read that and think it is true.

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

Need to be careful with those assumptions or "understanding ".

Anyone not knowing better could read that and think it is true.

Well, if you know better, or anyone else  for that matter, please do correct me.  But not with opinion, hard fact only please. 

[TerryFuchwit]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Well, if you know better, or anyone else  for that matter, please do correct me.  But not with opinion, hard fact only please. 

Well it's a fact that the lockdown wouldn't have been avoided with, what you term, more in depth genomic data.

[TheTeapot]

urrrrrrgggghhhhh

[Gladys]

27 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

Well it's a fact that the lockdown wouldn't have been avoided with, what you term, more in depth genomic data.

Not even with wider testing after the NYE cluster? 

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I don't think this lockdown is unnecessary - the way that hospital admissions climbed to 23 (a fortnight after lockdown came in) should tell us that.  But it was almost certainly mostly avoidable.

Point taken, but closing the schools and hospitality, reinstating distancing and masks would have been sufficient. Perhaps it would have meant more cases and a few more in hospital, but over all much less public expense and better overall mental health.