Nom de plume Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Have Jersey published any information on how much money their testing regime is costing? How many extra staff they've had to take on? Anything like that? Because it must be a lot. I'm unsure tbh. I don't even know if travellers into Jersey have to pay or part pay for testing. That said, they must believe the long term economic benefit is worth it. I'm sure people would pay for testing here if they were willing to travel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nom de plume said: I'm unsure tbh. I don't even know if travellers into Jersey have to pay or part pay for testing. That said, they must believe the long term economic benefit is worth it. I'm sure people would pay for testing here if they were willing to travel. I'm sure someone somewhere has created some mathematical program, an infallible algorithm, working out the cost:benefit thing, wonder if anyone has attempted such a thing here. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, Jersey is FAR more reliant on tourism than we are, and it may be cost effective to run thousands of tests a week. I'm not convinced that's the same here. I am open to having my mind changed by facts and reasonable arguments though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said: I’m really starting to have had enough of this situation now. It’s like the whole world has lost its head. This was only ever about managing NHS resources. When did it morph into nobody ever catching C-19 ever and a deliberate campaign to slowly kill millions more people by stealth and widespread economic destruction? The crazy brigade have won. I hope they’ll enjoy living on benefits in the damaged world they’ve created. But exactly like Brexit sadly a lot of the fundamentalists driving the agenda don’t live in the real economy - they’re largely retired or soap dodgers. As long as there is money in the pot for benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Have Jersey published any information on how much money their testing regime is costing? How many extra staff they've had to take on? Anything like that? Because it must be a lot. They have not published cost but it’s free for all arrivals and obviously with unemployment falling every week it will probably be cost effective as savings on benefits etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57293&headline=Unemployment falls§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Our unemployment is falling too. #keepthebordersclosed 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, piebaps said: http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57293&headline=Unemployment falls§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Our unemployment is falling too. #keepthebordersclosed Quote Sectors with the highest number of unemployed include construction I have no idea how this can be the case. Everyone I know is busy to the point of turning down work, and a quick skeet at the Job Centre website shows vacancies for brickies, groundworkers, plasterers, joiners, sparkies, scaffolders, drivers and labourers. Tree and gardening vacancies too. Maybe these are the Sultans skivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, piebaps said: http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57293&headline=Unemployment falls§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Our unemployment is falling too. #keepthebordersclosed Fell by a whopping 33 !! The article warns it will be upto record levels soon The number out of work dropped by 33 in July. That is an increase of 766 on the same month last year. Treasury Minister Alfred Cannan has warned that the jobless figure is likely to rise again later this year when a number of the government’s Covid support schemes come to an end. #getbordersopen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: I'm sure someone somewhere has created some mathematical program, an infallible algorithm, working out the cost:benefit thing, wonder if anyone has attempted such a thing here. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, Jersey is FAR more reliant on tourism than we are, and it may be cost effective to run thousands of tests a week. I'm not convinced that's the same here. I am open to having my mind changed by facts and reasonable arguments though. The issue is though do you want to rely on a system that is largely run by trust and a misconception that the borders are closed (when they aren’t but for many that simple misbelief is enough to stop them asking any more questions) which seems to be being abused by some and not monitored or do you want a system that relies on proper testing and tracking? Personally I’d prefer the latter rather than trusting people to self isolate for 14 days in the knowledge that many of them aren’t and the chances of any of them being caught are slim. If you’re tested you’re in the system, you’re known, and at the end of the process your results are known and you can go on your way. And if a second wave comes we already know whose had it and who hasn’t. Here at the moment you can literally fly back from anywhere in the world (and believe me many are) and claim you’re self isolating, nobody checks, and at the end you’ve still got no idea whether you had it or not. That seems like a complete waste of everyone’s time to me. It is literally only a matter of time until C-19 comes back here as the process is just slack. How can a purely voluntarily system that’s not being policed by and large be anywhere near 100% effective in stopping the virus? Just look at Chris Thomas’ questions in Tynwald this week he knows where the holes and the risks are. Edited August 17, 2020 by thesultanofsheight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, piebaps said: http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57293&headline=Unemployment falls§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Our unemployment is falling too. #keepthebordersclosed I’m sure that’s of great comfort to the 766 more who are unemployed in the IOM this year than last year! Plus they still don’t factor in those on MERA or whose employers are still getting Treasury support. They’ll have to be factored in at some stage if their jobs don’t come back in line and there’s still thousands of them. Edited August 17, 2020 by thesultanofsheight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nom de plume said: We need politicians who can see past the fictitious doomsday scenario where they believe everyone is going to die of this thing and have the minerals to lead and enact a border reopening plan that allows unrestricted movement with a testing regime in place to mitigate risk. Can you give any concrete examples of how you believe ending the current border restrictions would have any significant positive impact on the economy? Do you expect an influx of tourists? Edit: personally I believe that the impact on the economy would likely be neutral, tending towards negative. Edited August 17, 2020 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: The issue is though do you want to rely on a system that is largely run by trust and a misconception that the borders are closed (when they aren’t but for many that simple misbelief is enough to stop them asking any more questions) which seems to be being abused by some and not monitored or do you want a system that relies on proper testing and tracking? Personally I’d prefer the latter rather than trusting people to self isolate for 14 days in the knowledge that many of them aren’t and the chances of any of them being caught are slim. If you’re tested you’re in the system, you’re known, and at the end of the process your results are known and you can go on your way. Here at the moment you can literally fly back from anywhere in the world and claim you’re self isolating, nobody checks, and at the end you’ve still got no idea whether you had it or not. That seems like a complete waste of everyone’s time to me. It is literally only a matter of time until C-19 comes back here as the process is just slack. How can a purely voluntarily system that’s not being policed by and large be anywhere near 100% effective in stopping the virus? Just look at Chris Thomas’ questions in Tynwald this week he knows where the holes and the risks are. Spot on that's what most sensible residents are calling for a proper testing scheme. Interesting Baker is quoted as follows for key workers on promenade. Meanwhile Mr Baker confirmed that contractors working on the scheme who have come to the island from across wear different coloured hats. He said: ’It is so that on site it is clear for social distancing purposes to their work colleagues. It is so that there is more distance kept with them because clearly there is more of a potential risk for some of those workers. It is effectively a simple way of identifying whose who and who is what.’ perhaps we should wear different coloured hats rather than self isolation so everyone can keep clear? Edited August 17, 2020 by Banker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Banker said: perhaps we should we are different coloured hats rather than self isolation so everyone can keep clear? I like a hat based system. Edited August 17, 2020 by thesultanofsheight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, pongo said: Can you give any concrete examples of how you believe ending the current border restrictions would have any significant positive impact on the economy? Do you expect an influx of tourists? Edit: personally I believe that the impact on the economy would likely be neutral, tending towards negative. Currently no, nobody can. By the end of the year I believe you’ll see the damage that has been inflicted once financial aid has ceased. It will be GRIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, pongo said: Can you give any concrete examples of how you believe ending the current border restrictions would have any significant positive impact on the economy? Do you expect an influx of tourists? Edit: personally I believe that the impact on the economy would likely be neutral, tending towards negative. Well it’s obviously had a positive impact on Jersey with falling unemployment every week and Guernsey also feel that it will be positive otherwise they wouldn’t be going to 7 days now and possibly 24:48 hours isolation later in autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Nom de plume said: Currently no, nobody can. By the end of the year I believe you’ll see the damage that has been inflicted once financial aid has ceased. It will be GRIM. You cannot provide a single example demonstrating that the Isle of Man economy would positively benefit at this stage from a lifting of the current border restrictions. It's not a question of whether this crisis is bad news for the economy. Of course it is. But there is no evidence or sensible modelling to indicate that lifting the current restrictions would improve the economy at this stage. Though there is every good reason to assume that it would have a negative impact. Edited August 17, 2020 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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