IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Mr Roboto said:

How is it that you seem to be so thoroughly incapable of understanding other posters perspectives? It’s no real threat at this time. It’s creating media attention and throwing off a huge number of stats that many seem to be obsessing over but it’s not the Covid Armageddon it’s being painted as and it’s not a threat to me in the IOM to be honest. You sound rather the conspiracy theorist yourself to suggest that it is. India as a country that has incredibly high levels of poverty and a chaotic healthcare system. These sort of things were always going to happen during an outbreak as the infrastructure is simply not there.

Rememder lockdowns were only ever about protecting the institutions providing medical care from being overrun. But if your healthcare system is already corrupt, chaotic, and basically can’t cope then these sort of things are going to happen regardless.

And the level of poverty makes lockdowns out of the question. 

This started with an observation that India is as much a victim of institutional corruption as the virus. That was responded with how dare you not have sympathy and try to blame their government.   Then look at Bojo (you get where I am coming from).  Now that India threatens the whole world because it will be a breeding ground for new variants. 

Not sure I understand the line of counter argument, but it is true that India is in such a bad state because of its chaotic healthcare.  It is worth reading the TI report I linked to, there have long been problems with health provision in India, much connected to absenteeism and charging, which has exacerbated the spread of covid.  

[Mr Roboto]

39 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Not sure I understand the line of counter argument, but it is true that India is in such a bad state because of its chaotic healthcare.  It is worth reading the TI report I linked to, there have long been problems with health provision in India, much connected to absenteeism and charging, which has exacerbated the spread of covid.  

That is basically the counter argument. Normally a lockdown is there to protect the medical infrastructure but I’d suggest that’s maybe largely a waste of time in India given its infrastructure. That’s why you have highly emotive videos of families taking their dead relatives to the undertakers on a moped circulating etc. As there aren’t ambulances or hearses for them anyway. They simply don’t exist like they would in the UK or Europe.

Therefore I’m not sure whether the media tactics of spreading fear around this variant are valid. Lots of people are dying that’s true but is it the actual variant that’s seeing them off (ie, is it actually more deadly)? Or is it all largely down to a fairly appalling healthcare system and incredibly high levels of poverty and a lack of basic sanitation that are driving the death toll separate to the specific Indian variants alleged potency? If so as these conditions certainly won’t apply in the UK if it gets here who knows whether we have anything to fear from the specific Indian variant or not? I doubt people in Blackpool will ever be conveying their dead to the morgue on the back of a Honda C70 or be denied oxygen in ICU because someone “more important” needs it. Anyone who needs treatment will get treatment. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Mr Roboto

[trmpton]

35 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Closing their borders has nothing whatever to do with how many of them have a passport. It has everything to do with keeping the virus out.

But people who don't have passports are obviously not arsed if the borders open.

You can see that right?

It like asking people who don't ever watch snooker of they would object to the snooker world championships being cancelled.  They wouldn't 

[P.K.]

9 minutes ago, trmpton said:

But people who don't have passports are obviously not arsed if the borders open.

You can see that right?

It like asking people who don't ever watch snooker of they would object to the snooker world championships being cancelled.  They wouldn't 

If only 40% of Australians have a passport and over 70% want the borders shut your argument is clearly flawed.

You can see that, right?

[thommo2010]

The reason so many aussies want their borders closed is because for the past 12 months we have been conditioned to believe that covid is going to end humanity and every time there's a few cases they are back into lockdown. Maybe if more positive news was being broadcast instead of constant doom and gloom they might think different

 

Just look at the People in the UK celebrating being able to sit outside a pub. Any smidge of normality people will grab on to. 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

The reason so many aussies want their borders closed is because for the past 12 months we have been conditioned to believe that covid is going to end humanity and every time there's a few cases they are back into lockdown. Maybe if more positive news was being broadcast instead of constant doom and gloom they might think different

Who has conditioned you personally?

[thommo2010]

9 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Who has conditioned you personally?

Nobody,but I'm not glued to news/social media 24/7. 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

If only 40% of Australians have a passport and over 70% want the borders shut your argument is clearly flawed.

You can see that, right?

I think the correlation between passport holders and a desire to keep the borders shut is only part of the story.  More to the point is that people were given the reassurance of ""pulling up the drawbridge" and are not willing to let that go easily.  Its a psychological response, possibly a tribal response to overwhelming threat.

It would be interesting to know if any countries who did not close their borders, but have dealt with covid, face the same response.  Or do those countries actually look at internal measures?  I will Google. 

[Gladys]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03605-6

Interesting.

[Banker]

20 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I think the correlation between passport holders and a desire to keep the borders shut is only part of the story.  More to the point is that people were given the reassurance of ""pulling up the drawbridge" and are not willing to let that go easily.  Its a psychological response, possibly a tribal response to overwhelming threat.

It would be interesting to know if any countries who did not close their borders, but have dealt with covid, face the same response.  Or do those countries actually look at internal measures?  I will Google. 

Many Australians also want vaccinations but not many have had it worse roll out than Europe 

[Gladys]

8 minutes ago, Banker said:

Many Australians also want vaccinations but not many have had it worse roll out than Europe 

Yes, we have to remember the difference between want and necessity. IMHO a good rollout of vax is a necessity, closed borders are a want.  Perhaps if the necessity was being met, the want would be less. 

[Out of the blue]

13 minutes ago, Gladys said:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03605-6

Interesting.

I  hope that one positive thing to come out of this mess, is that governments around the world will look into their response and create a frameworks and strategies that deal with the next pandemic in a more measured and proportionate way.

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

I  hope that one positive thing to come out of this mess, is that governments around the world will look into their response and create a frameworks and strategies that deal with the next pandemic in a more measured and proportionate way.

Indeed.  I think you are one of those asking for a sophisticated and intelligent response last year.  Let's hope lessons really have been learned.

[Mr Roboto]

1 minute ago, Out of the blue said:

I  hope that one positive thing to come out of this mess, is that governments around the world will look into their response and create a frameworks and strategies that deal with the next pandemic in a more measured and proportionate way.

And that they do a full audit on where the default solution of enforced lockdowns as the solution to everything actually came from. Seems to me the template was set in Asia where lockdowns as a public health solution also had all sorts of spin off benefits in terms of population control and suppressing dissent etc. 

[Ham_N_Eggs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Roboto said:

And that they do a full audit on where the default solution of enforced lockdowns as the solution to everything actually came from. Seems to me the template was set in Asia where lockdowns as a public health solution also had all sorts of spin off benefits in terms of population control and suppressing dissent etc. 

Read this. You might be enlightened by what lessons were learned from SARS in the East for SARS-CoV-2 aka COVID-19 that the West ignored.