IOM Covid removing restrictions

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, cheesypeas said:

I think it’s a bit blasé to assume anyone can arrange a charter holiday flight. Certainly without the right licenses, you would be scuppered. I was involved with the first batch of these flights when we used Aspro Holidays and Intra European Airways. If I remember correctly, they used Intasuns aircraft after they went to the wall. Anyway, there’s quite a bit of certification required, such as Atol. 
 

....we went on one of the trips ourselves to Rhodes (refuel stop in Newcastle). We ended up in an apartment next to ‘Yankie Shimmin’. Jesus ! 

Yes, the licences, bonding and permissions are a pain. And that’s not local requirements or politicos. It being the IOM does create another layer.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

Guernsey flights last year sold out. The direct flights to Majorca in 2019 were popular as well. 

That wasn't easyjet!

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That wasn't easyjet!

They, EZY, aren’t going to put on weekly flights to foreign parts, for a short season,. Neither are Ryanair, Wizz or any other budget.

[P.K.]

@Happier diner

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

How crass and insensitive can you be?

I have already posed the question how many fatalities would be acceptable to folks to fully open up?

Here is one of the answers:

On 5/6/2021 at 10:51 AM, trmpton said:

Two a week as a direct result of COVID would be acceptable IMO if it opened us up.

Now who is being crass and insensitive?

In the UK during a No 10 briefing Vallance and Whitty* advised that re-opening the schools would lead to an increase in the infection rate and thus fatalities. But the alternative is to hide until everyone is vaccinated and then what? Wait for the next variant that can navigate through your defenses?

So you simply have to face the reality of the situation but, of course, timing is everything.

*Bozo doesn't count because he's only in it for himself...

[John Wright]

27 minutes ago, P.K. said:

@Happier diner

I have already posed the question how many fatalities would be acceptable to folks to fully open up?

Here is one of the answers:

Now who is being crass and insensitive?

In the UK during a No 10 briefing Vallance and Whitty* advised that re-opening the schools would lead to an increase in the infection rate and thus fatalities. But the alternative is to hide until everyone is vaccinated and then what? Wait for the next variant that can navigate through your defenses?

So you simply have to face the reality of the situation but, of course, timing is everything.

*Bozo doesn't count because he's only in it for himself...

The real problem is there is no acceptable answer to your question. Life is full of risk, from birth to death, from waking to sleeping, going up and down the stairs, going out, catching a bus, driving, meeting people, travelling.

We don’t stop people from doing those activities because we try snd reduce, but not always minimise, risk. And we’ve become enured to most risk at the levels it now is, after a hundred years of fatal accident legislation, health & safety, and 75 years of the NHS, improved health care and reduced mortality.

The damage caused by lock downs, travel bans, economic restriction, social distancing has to be balanced against the actual risk now we have vaccinations.

I happen to think that the UK and IOM de-escalation is about right. I’m not worried about 2, 3, 4 weeks difference between the IOM and either CI. It’s like the delay in starting vaccine admin. We’ve caught up. A few weeks will make no difference.

yes, some people are more gung ho, at one end of the spectrum, others are ultra cautious. The opprobrium on here, towards either end, doesn’t help. We now need reconciliation to move forward together. It’s going to take time for us all.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

The real problem is there is no acceptable answer to your question. Life is full of risk, from birth to death, from waking to sleeping, going up and down the stairs, going out, catching a bus, driving, meeting people, travelling.

We don’t stop people from doing those activities because we try snd reduce, but not always minimise, risk. And we’ve become enured to most risk at the levels it now is, after a hundred years of fatal accident legislation, health & safety, and 75 years of the NHS, improved health care and reduced mortality.

The damage caused by lock downs, travel bans, economic restriction, social distancing has to be balanced against the actual risk now we have vaccinations.

I happen to think that the UK and IOM de-escalation is about right. I’m not worried about 2, 3, 4 weeks difference between the IOM and either CI. It’s like the delay in starting vaccine admin. We’ve caught up. A few weeks will make no difference.

yes, some people are more gung ho, at one end of the spectrum, others are ultra cautious. The opprobrium on here, towards either end, doesn’t help. We now need reconciliation to move forward together. It’s going to take time for us all.

Quite so.

My issue is that some folks seem to be taking the effects of their actions on others rather too flippantly. In other words sure we can calculate our own risks but it's impossible to factor into your calculations the selfishness and downright crass stupidity of others. The jetski romeo springs to mind here.

Would you like to be crewman zero with lots of infections, illness and four fatalities on your conscience? I have to say I wouldn't like it but by his own admission I'm sure it wouldn't bother the likes of trmpton one little bit.

As I get older I'm definately definitely finding the me me me ethos very tiresome...

[Banker]

Any news on when the steam packet report which was supposed to be ready end April will be released?Is it with cabinet office to get excuses ready??

Edited May 8, 2021 by Banker

[John Wright]

19 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Quite so.

My issue is that some folks seem to be taking the effects of their actions on others rather too flippantly. In other words sure we can calculate our own risks but it's impossible to factor into your calculations the selfishness and downright crass stupidity of others. The jetski romeo springs to mind here.

Would you like to be crewman zero with lots of infections, illness and four fatalities on your conscience? I have to say I wouldn't like it but by his own admission I'm sure it wouldn't bother the likes of trmpton one little bit.

As I get older I'm definately definitely finding the me me me ethos very tiresome...

But your ethos is also a sort of me me as well. Look at me I’m so virtuous, I’m protecting myself and the rest of society. 

People go out in cars and kill every day. 99% of them don’t intend to. We have driving tests, MoT ( well not on IOM ), road safety measures, modern car design, speed limits ( well not on the IOM ). I’ve represented people charged with Death by Dangerous/reckless/careless. Like you I don’t know how they live with it.

The alternative, we ban cars and driving.

I travelled for 2 months in Europe last year. Before vaccines. I weighed up the risks, to me. Also to others if I brought it back. I looked at infection rates on my route. I factored in exposure on transport. I factored in that I’d observe quarantine. I factored in that I’d have PCR tests en route as I crossed borders. 

The truth is we can’t lock away permanently. We now have widespread vaccinations, the combination of vaccine and lockdown has reduced infection rates here, UK, and is reducing them in large parts of the world.

Weve got to get used to the new normal, with red lists, PCR, vaccine passports. We have to start somewhere.

And those that crow have been just as wrong about when it will happen as those who urge delay or caution. I wish them well in their attempts to enter AUS and NZ. Perhaps -10°C in South Georgia, after a three day trip, will cool their enthusiasm.

Pragmatic baby steps are the only option.

[trmpton]

22 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Quite so.

My issue is that some folks seem to be taking the effects of their actions on others rather too flippantly. In other words sure we can calculate our own risks but it's impossible to factor into your calculations the selfishness and downright crass stupidity of others. The jetski romeo springs to mind here.

Would you like to be crewman zero with lots of infections, illness and four fatalities on your conscience? I have to say I wouldn't like it but by his own admission I'm sure it wouldn't bother the likes of trmpton one little bit.

As I get older I'm definately definitely finding the me me me ethos very tiresome...

Your example is pre vaccines (largely) we live in a different world with completely different risk levels to the one we did a few months ago.

[Banker]

Today’s screen shot shows same data as yesterday ie one in hospital, someone posted that person in hospital  had died but either that’s wrong information or sheet is wrong?

Edited May 8, 2021 by Banker

[trmpton]

40 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Quite so.

My issue is that some folks seem to be taking the effects of their actions on others rather too flippantly. In other words sure we can calculate our own risks but it's impossible to factor into your calculations the selfishness and downright crass stupidity of others. The jetski romeo springs to mind here.

Would you like to be crewman zero with lots of infections, illness and four fatalities on your conscience? I have to say I wouldn't like it but by his own admission I'm sure it wouldn't bother the likes of trmpton one little bit.

As I get older I'm definately definitely finding the me me me ethos very tiresome...

You seem 100 percent convinced that those 4 people would still be with us if COVID 19 didn't exist.

Do you actually have any evidence to back that up?

[P.K.]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

But your ethos is also a sort of me me as well. Look at me I’m so virtuous, I’m protecting myself and the rest of society. 

People go out in cars and kill every day. 99% of them don’t intend to. We have driving tests, MoT ( well not on IOM ), road safety measures, modern car design, speed limits ( well not on the IOM ). I’ve represented people charged with Death by Dangerous/reckless/careless. Like you I don’t know how they live with it.

The alternative, we ban cars and driving.

I travelled for 2 months in Europe last year. Before vaccines. I weighed up the risks, to me. Also to others if I brought it back. I looked at infection rates on my route. I factored in exposure on transport. I factored in that I’d observe quarantine. I factored in that I’d have PCR tests en route as I crossed borders. 

The truth is we can’t lock away permanently. We now have widespread vaccinations, the combination of vaccine and lockdown has reduced infection rates here, UK, and is reducing them in large parts of the world.

Weve got to get used to the new normal, with red lists, PCR, vaccine passports. We have to start somewhere.

And those that crow have been just as wrong about when it will happen as those who urge delay or caution. I wish them well in their attempts to enter AUS and NZ. Perhaps -10°C in South Georgia, after a three day trip, will cool their enthusiasm.

Pragmatic baby steps are the only option.

Me? Virtuous? Don't think so...

Sure people still smoke, drink, drive like a moron... But these things are accepted as the norm - people expressing their right to determine how they want to live their lives. Fair enough.

The truth is I am starting to feel a bit sorry for those having to make these decisions. Obviously I hope the likes of Bozo, Bolsonaro, Trump etc all burn in hell. But I'm quite sure Mr Quayle did not sign up to make decisions that could have such far-reaching and fatal consequences. Well, he wanted the job. And he got it. But if all those on here banging on and on about opening the borders etc etc are typical Mr Quayle will obviously be under a lot of pressure. Is he handling it?

As an aside the UK infection rates are flatlining at around 2k per day. I wonder if that is part of the "new normal" as well...?

[Banker]

11 minutes ago, trmpton said:

You seem 100 percent convinced that those 4 people would still be with us if COVID 19 didn't exist.

Do you actually have any evidence to back that up?

Of course he doesn’t, at least 2 had returned from UK hospital & had serious underlying health conditions 

[Banker]

Confirmation no new cases & no deaths, not sure why someone posted about a death but it gave PK a chance to pontificate!!

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-new-active-cases-for-sixth-day-in-a-row/

[P.K.]

40 minutes ago, trmpton said:

You seem 100 percent convinced that those 4 people would still be with us if COVID 19 didn't exist.

Do you actually have any evidence to back that up?

Where have I said I am 100% certain of anything?

But particularly this....