IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Southfork]

11 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

But that's the point. Until the consumer/user is satisfied himself that the risk is worth taking then nothing will return to normal.

Consumers have to have money in order to consume. If this goes on much longer we will have a lot less consumers so it all becomes irrelevant. Was speaking to a hairdresser yesterday. Hasn’t worked since March. Probably won’t be working to August minimum. That will be 5 months earning nothing while still paying rent and rates on her shop and paying her own mortgage and bills. Many simply cannot hold out much longer. The financial burden is immense. But teachers still raking it in so can hold out for as long as they can negotiate. They should be furloughed if they aren’t prepared to work. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Southfork

[Andy Onchan]

4 minutes ago, Southfork said:

I agree with you. I would say anecdotally lots of teachers seem happy to be off until September. And who wouldn’t be if they were getting full pay for bit of sunbathing? The universities have uploaded content into the web and are doing virtual modules but outside of key worker baby sitting the teachers here aren't doing much. The unions will be really loving this as they are holding government to ransom as if there are any deaths they have big pockets to sue governments and local authorities for failing to manage Covid risks. The whole public sector piece with the unions is going to get very tricky. And the longer this goes on there will be less and less taxpayers and taxpaying  businesses to pay for their unrealistic demands. If they don’t want to go back they should be furloughed. We shouldn’t be paying fir their extended holidays. 

The unions won't/can't hold anyone to ransom these days, their members are a lot more savvy than they give them credit for.

I take it you don't have kids of school age because if you did you would know that primary school teachers are doing Home working with their pupils. And I've no reason to believe that secondary school teachers are doing anything different. 

[Neil Down]

1 hour ago, Southfork said:

Brilliant point well made. More people will have died in the TT and MGP than will ever died of Covid on the IOM and that’s entirely fine and sponsored by government. It’s time to open up the economy before it’s too late. We’re going to be living with Covid for a while. It isn’t just going to go away if we stay in our houses and it’s clear most cases so far have been spread by key workers so maybe they should pay attention to their own advice on social distancing and general protection measures a bit more. 

You must be a government statistician...

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

The unions won't/can't hold anyone to ransom these days, their members are a lot more savvy than they give them credit for.

I take it you don't have kids of school age because if you did you would know that primary school teachers are doing Home working with their pupils. And I've no reason to believe that secondary school teachers are doing anything different. 

I have two primary school aged kids.  The "home working" you reference is fairly limited.  In addition I'm not sure practically how two working parents can sit there and do the teaching of a 5 year old.

[Andy Onchan]

3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

I have two primary school aged kids.  The "home working" you reference is fairly limited.  In addition I'm not sure practically how two working parents can sit there and do the teaching of a 5 year old.

Yes it is limited but there's a teacher at the other end. I'm not sure that i follow the relevance of your last sentence.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Yes it is limited but there's a teacher at the other end. I'm not sure that i follow the relevance of your last sentence.

Logistically I'm being asked to teach my own children.  When my employer expects me to earn what they are paying me. That is very difficult to balance and whilst I agree there was a need for a period of time that needs to end and schools need to get back to doing what they do.   The agenda is to keep them closed until September.

So I guess I'm expecting teachers to teach rather than a small number bring the educational system to a halt because it suits them.

[Out of the blue]

Now that we are several weeks into this crisis, I have become increasingly frustrated with the home schooling regime that is in place in the state sector. My children are at key points in their education. A couple more weeks of this situation is okay and understandable. Any more and the lack of teacher interaction and of all the other facets of education that previously the school system performed so well, will start damaging my and others children's education. I am fortunate to have space, facilities and time to give to their education, but with the best will in the world I am no teacher and we are scraping by. There will be many others, less fortunate who will be watching 'educationa'l programs, interspersed by video games and no discernible exercise, who really need the routine, stability and expertise of the education system. I know several teachers, and although it is not a scientific sample, they are all anxious and scared, and do not want to go back at the moment. Incidentally I believe that KWC and the Buchan are using MS Teams to conduct lessons. They have to sign onto timetabled lessons that are teacher led. The parents I have spoken to about it appear happy, and the kids are learning and interacting with their peers.

[Southfork]

35 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

The unions won't/can't hold anyone to ransom these days, their members are a lot more savvy than they give them credit for.

I take it you don't have kids of school age because if you did you would know that primary school teachers are doing Home working with their pupils. And I've no reason to believe that secondary school teachers are doing anything different. 

I agree. On the second point I’m aware the secondary teachers really just have a rota to look after key worker kids. They aren’t supporting us non essential people. Most uni’s though are nearly operating virtually for content and course work. I was going to go easy on the subject but it seems to be that the same poster who criticized me and others for making reference to some government workers being paid to stay at home doing little yesterday clearly has a big issue with school teachers staying at home and doing little. I think if they aren’t fully utilized they should be furloughed. Just like all non utilized or under utilized public sector workers. We need to start applying incentives to cut cost (as tax revenues are going to plummet) and get people back to work. Paying people full pay to stay at home is no incentive to get things back to normal or to adjust to the huge fall in tax revenue and VAT receipts which is coming. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Southfork

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, Southfork said:

Brilliant point well made. More people will have died in the TT and MGP than will ever died of Covid on the IOM and that’s entirely fine and sponsored by government. It’s time to open up the economy before it’s too late. We’re going to be living with Covid for a while. It isn’t just going to go away if we stay in our houses and it’s clear most cases so far have been spread by key workers so maybe they should pay attention to their own advice on social distancing and general protection measures a bit more. 

No it's not a brilliant point well made at all.

Volunteering to take a risk like TT is a personal choice.

Think those poor souls in Abbotswood "made a personal choice" or something...?

People also have to stop thinking it's no worse than flu. We may not know much about it as yet but we do know that compared to flu it spreads more easily, it's more lethal and most importantly is unlikely to be seasonal. It also seems able to lethally affect all ages.

Someone we know bought out his partner a few years ago. He put his house up as security on the loans. It now looks like he will lose the lot. Slings and arrows as they say. But as he put it hopefully he will still be around to try and rebuild what he's lost....

[Nellie]

51 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

The unions won't/can't hold anyone to ransom these days, their members are a lot more savvy than they give them credit for.

I take it you don't have kids of school age because if you did you would know that primary school teachers are doing Home working with their pupils. And I've no reason to believe that secondary school teachers are doing anything different. 

It was obvious during last Sunday's briefing that Allinson had surrendered control of the school return project to the teachers and unions. 

Clearly some changes to traditional ways of doing things will be necessary, but the spectre of furloughs needs to be on the table, to ensure that minds are focused on achieving a sensible solution, in a sensible timeframe.

 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

I can't see what realistic and enforceable changes can be made at school.

Kids are not, quite rightly, going to social distance.   Won't happen.

Allinson will show very weak leadership if he let's unions and teachers dictate.

[Max Power]

2 hours ago, Southfork said:

Brilliant point well made. More people will have died in the TT and MGP than will ever died of Covid on the IOM and that’s entirely fine and sponsored by government. 

Not in the period of a month or so though Forkie, the annual death rate without precautions could be enormous. 

[Lost Login]

4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Not in the period of a month or so though Forkie, the annual death rate without precautions could be enormous. 

I wish I had not mentioned the TT/MGP and just kept it to Flu etc. I was making a general point that to me it appears to be perverse to argue that in respect of Covid 19 we should basically do anything and everything to stop further cases and deaths in the IoM and that the economy should have absolutely no baring on the matter when we are prepared to allow Flu into the IoM every year which will kill people each year, or we put on an event purely to sustain the economy that will cause death. I am not arguing the rights or wrongs or whether the numbers are better or worse for one of the other. I was also making the point very specifically to taking Covid 19 deaths to nil not to stopping them being in the 100's.

And it is nothing about in the TT/MGP you are only putting yourself at risk. There are unfortunately plenty caught up in very serious accidents that where caused by the actions of others. As I said all that is irrelevant the point really was that if we base our future planning so that there should be no more Covid 19 deaths in the IoM and hang the economy what is special about Covid 19 as we don't apply the same standard to other diseases or activities and this not mean letting Covid 19 simply escalate out of control.

 

 

[Golfer]

50 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

I can't see what realistic and enforceable changes can be made at school.

Kids are not, quite rightly, going to social distance.   Won't happen.

Allinson will show very weak leadership if he let's unions and teachers dictate.

I know several teachers and they are doing very little if anything connected with schools, they don't listen to the updates as not interested as long as they get paid in full. If they don't want to open schools make all the teachers do the classes via Microsoft teams like KWC are doing and provide those that need it with laptops!!

[Lost Login]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

No it's not a brilliant point well made at all.

Volunteering to take a risk like TT is a personal choice.

Think those poor souls in Abbotswood "made a personal choice" or something...?

People also have to stop thinking it's no worse than flu. We may not know much about it as yet but we do know that compared to flu it spreads more easily, it's more lethal and most importantly is unlikely to be seasonal. It also seems able to lethally affect all ages.

Someone we know bought out his partner a few years ago. He put his house up as security on the loans. It now looks like he will lose the lot. Slings and arrows as they say. But as he put it hopefully he will still be around to try and rebuild what he's lost....

I would suggest neither is yours. Based on your point I could argue that those who wanted to could simply "volunteer" to carry on as normal and risk catching the disease and it being a personal choice. Your response I am sure would be that by exercising that public choice they would be putting others at risk. Fine but there are plenty who have been very seriously affected during the TT by the actions of others through no fault of their own. Many take their own precautions by keeping off the roads or going away for the TT and you could argue that those worried about Covid 19 could take their own precautions. I am not advocating that I am just trying to stop this thread being diverted into a defend or attack the TT thread.

Why should most us stop thinking that it is not worse than Flu. For the majority of us if we catch it that is likely to be the case. It is more contagious than flu, roughly twice from what I have read, but less contagious than measles and MERS but on a problem with SARS. Those also affect people of all ages but again it is mainly, but not exclusively, the elderly and those with underlying conditions who suffer the worst and make up the majority of the fatalities. If there was a vaccine the elderly and the vulnerable would be vaccinated and the rest of us would simply have to have live, just as we do with flu.

I am not trying to suggest that Covid 19 is not harmful and serious to many, it is because of the number of infections and there is presently no vaccine or apparently any medical treatment by way medicine, injection that suppresses the vaccine in those that have it.  But neither is a killer apocalypse running amongst us as some seem to suggest. It would be great if there where no cases here but the important thing is to limit the number that the health service can cope with, hopefully whilst doing there normal day to day activities.

I think in the main the IoM and other places are doing a decent job to control Covid 19 and that needs to continue to be the case by taking appropriate action. I just don't think the disease is so serious that everything else should go out of the window and we essentially just focus on Covid 19. There is a balance to be had. The question is where?  If you offered me a complete lock down for a month and that is the end of Covid 19 on the IoM I would probably grab it, offer me go back to normal and we start having deaths in the 100s and I would not. Offer me a lock down for 12 months to ensure no cases/deaths or a fair way back to normality and a few deaths then I have to admit I would accept the latter.  Are 10 new cases of cancer not picked up at an early point a price worth paying for reducing Covid 19 deaths in the IoM by one? There is no back and white right answer unless you are one of those cases.

 

 

  

Edited May 10, 2020 by Lost Login