IOM Covid removing restrictions

[trmpton]

3 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Lots of interesting comments. Hindsight is 2020 vision! 

Hardly any of what is being discussed needed hindsight to see it was wrong.

What was needed was competense and strong leadership.

We got neither.

It was error after error and sheer good luck that we weren't much more badly hit with regards to illness and death.

[Declan]

9 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Lots of interesting comments. Hindsight is 2020 vision! 

I said everything in my post at the time. You'll notice I'm not challenging them on the timing of the border closure. 

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, trmpton said:

Dues for what?

All they did was close the borders.  They made no provision for compassionate visits just closed everything.

They were very, very lucky there wasn't an issue caused by the key workers and steam packet crews.

I seriously can't think of a single thing they did that was handled well or involved any creative thinking or clever solutions to the problems the border closure caused.

What did they do that they should be congratulated on?

They closed everything at first. Quite rightly. Nobody knew how bad or deadly the virus would or could be. Compassionate visits were later allowed, with isolation. Elimination was the intention once cases started to fall. It was not a fluke. The variant we were dealing with back then was not airborne except in aerosols. Good hygiene, distance and masks in enclosed spaces was all that was required. Had they kept the Comis going, it would have been attained earlier. In fact, it is Comis style isolation in the uk (they finally caught on) that means hopefully we will have a completely free border in a few weeks time. 

[trmpton]

3 minutes ago, Cambon said:

They closed everything at first. Quite rightly. Nobody knew how bad or deadly the virus would or could be. Compassionate visits were later allowed, with isolation. Elimination was the intention once cases started to fall. It was not a fluke. The variant we were dealing with back then was not airborne except in aerosols. Good hygiene, distance and masks in enclosed spaces was all that was required. Had they kept the Comis going, it would have been attained earlier. In fact, it is Comis style isolation in the uk (they finally caught on) that means hopefully we will have a completely free border in a few weeks time. 

Disagree. 

Elimination was never their strategy, it happened by fluke then backed them into a corner where they had to try and sustain it.

I can't find any reference anywhere to trying to achieve elimination until afer they had already fluked it.  This is also backed up by conversations with people much more "in the know" than you or I.

There were definitely times they wished we didn't have to try and maintain elimination 

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Much of what is hindsight now was mentioned at the time.  The folly of many decisions was clear at the time they were made,  hindsight just confirmed it. 

Sorry, I don't agree. Sure some mistakes were made, but in general the correct things were done.

[cissolt]

We followed the UK public health herd immunity strategy at first.  Calls for early border closures and mask wearing by the medical director were dismissed by Henrietta.  Even David Ashford admitted that the medical director called for earlier action.  

A full independent public enquiry is required, we cannot leave it up to the AG to appoint his mate again(and promote him)

[Happier diner]

19 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Disagree. 

Elimination was never their strategy, it happened by fluke then backed them into a corner where they had to try and sustain it.

I can't find any reference anywhere to trying to achieve elimination until afer they had already fluked it.  This is also backed up by conversations with people much more "in the know" than you or I.

There were definitely times they wished we didn't have to try and maintain elimination 

That's how I read it too. No one expected elimination, it was good fortune and became the norm. Its going to be hard to change peoples view as we are so used to it now.

[trmpton]

13 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That's how I read it too. No one expected elimination, it was good fortune and became the norm. Its going to be hard to change peoples view as we are so used to it now.

Because that is exactly what happened.

Not sure why @Cambonthinks any different or what he is basing that on?

[Gladys]

The original mantra was to protect the hospital.  We ended up with elimination and that became the mantra, the exact change in tack was not borne of a single decision as I recall. 

[Barlow]

It's fair to say the situation is fluid.

Protect the NHS first, and then eliminate the virus if possible.

It is possible of course, but that would take a global and concerted effort, which won't happen. Isle of Man et al may have eliminated the virus but the World cannot.

Incidentally, regarding people who do catch Covid-19, I wonder how many of them are Wu-flu'ers or even complete deniers. How many of them wore a mask ie a "face-nappy", kept social distancing etc

I wonder.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Barlow

[Cambon]

19 minutes ago, Gladys said:

The original mantra was to protect the hospital.  We ended up with elimination and that became the mantra, the exact change in tack was not borne of a single decision as I recall. 

Yes. Protect the NHS, then elimination when some other small countries had managed it and our numbers were plummeting. And of course Banker's Guernsey were headed that way. They looked at herd immunity at first, as did the uk, but that was not really possible without a vaccine. 

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, trmpton said:

Disagree. 

Elimination was never their strategy, it happened by fluke then backed them into a corner where they had to try and sustain it.

I can't find any reference anywhere to trying to achieve elimination until afer they had already fluked it.  This is also backed up by conversations with people much more "in the know" than you or I.

There were definitely times they wished we didn't have to try and maintain elimination 

Was not a fluke, just was not the original plan.

[Andy Onchan]

28 minutes ago, Gladys said:

The original mantra was to protect the hospital.  We ended up with elimination and that became the mantra, the exact change in tack was not borne of a single decision as I recall. 

The change in tack almost certainly came from PHE.

[Banker]

2 hours ago, Cambon said:

Sorry, I don't agree. Sure some mistakes were made, but in general the correct things were done.

Think your memory of what happened is a bit fuzzy, all they did was close borders & ban residents & families from returning, hardly a plan! Since then the shambles has continued 

[Ham_N_Eggs]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

The original mantra was to protect the hospital.  We ended up with elimination and that became the mantra, the exact change in tack was not borne of a single decision as I recall. 

Ah yes, blindly copying PHE and their absolutely mental herd immunity policy. I still can't believe the Conservatives are in power after they advocated for a portion of the population to be killed for the "greater good".