IOM Covid removing restrictions

[trmpton]

23 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

But it's 'no biggie' to frequently mass test secondary school kids?

I fessed up to a mistake there.  I thought a lateral flow test was less intrusive and admitted my error as soon as it was pointed out.

Plus, we won’t be frequently mass testing anyone - you should probably fact check your posts.

Its completely optional so I doubt many/any will take it up. No biggie

Edited June 16, 2021 by trmpton

[trmpton]

7 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Under 5s are exempted from any testing or isolation, if you read the documents put up to Tynwald.

Yes I know.  We are still the only place I am aware of in Britain who as it stands today subject babies to covid test, and even at five I believe that makes us rare in testing primary age kids.

CI don’t test under 11

Edited June 16, 2021 by trmpton

[madmanxpilot]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Some whingeing on MR this morning about how these  new arrangements discriminate against those who have not had jabs.  So, what do we do, hold off on this step so no-one is discriminated against?

The anti-vaxxers need to get a grip and understand it is their own choice not have the vax, so they alone put themselves into that position.

With regards to those who can't have the jab for medical reasons, feel some sympathy but the test and isolate arrangements aren't too arduous, are they?

Exactly. There are many examples where people are prevented from doing things because of medical conditions, size etc.  Accommodations are made where possible, and as you say, the current testing and release protocols aren't too arduous in any event. 

Those who are still waiting their vaccine, yes, it's unfortunate. But, their time will come shortly and the rest of us shouldn't have to wait until that point. 

Antivaxxers - they chose to be part of the problem not the solution. No sympathy here.

[2112]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Some whingeing on MR this morning about how these  new arrangements discriminate against those who have not had jabs.  So, what do we do, hold off on this step so no-one is discriminated against?

The anti-vaxxers need to get a grip and understand it is their own choice not have the vax, so they alone put themselves into that position.

With regards to those who can't have the jab for medical reasons, feel some sympathy but the test and isolate arrangements aren't too arduous, are they?

I think the new proposed arrangements are better (whilst not perfect) than before, it suits me as someone getting his second dose next week.

What does annoy me though is the testing of school children who are being given lateral testing kits to test at home. Ashie and the gang were spouting this was unreliable and yet it held us back. If it was unreliable then surely they will be unreliable now. Perhaps the border regime could have been opened earlier like Jersey but using a wider combination of testing using PCR and Lateral kits etc. 

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said:

Exactly. There are many examples where people are prevented from doing things because of medical conditions, size etc.  Accommodations are made where possible, and as you say, the current testing and release protocols aren't too arduous in any event. 

Those who are still waiting their vaccine, yes, it's unfortunate. But, their time will come shortly and the rest of us shouldn't have to wait until that point. 

Antivaxxers - they chose to be part of the problem not the solution. No sympathy here.

Indeed.  It boils down to one thing - choice.

Those who have a choice must live with the consequences of their decisions.  If the decision turns out to disadvantage them, then they made a bad decision. 

Those who don't have a choice must be given all reasonable assistance and support so that they are not disadvantaged by their lack of choice.  Unfortunately, for those who are unable to have a vax, there is a degree of disadvantage but it is pretty limited due to the current re-entry requirements. The only group who could claim real disadvantage are the UK visitors who are not in the allowed category of traveller and can't have the vax.  That is an area for further thought.  

Those rules of choice apply to many situations, imo, when people scream discrimination. If you choose to put yourself in a group that has discriminatory consequences, then who should put the decision right? 

[trmpton]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Indeed.  It boils down to one thing - choice.

Those who have a choice must live with the consequences of their decisions.  If the decision turns out to disadvantage them, then they made a bad decision. 

Those who don't have a choice must be given all reasonable assistance and support so that they are not disadvantaged by their lack of choice.  Unfortunately, for those who are unable to have a vax, there is a degree of disadvantage but it is pretty limited due to the current re-entry requirements. The only group who could claim real disadvantage are the UK visitors who are not in the allowed category of traveller and can't have the vax.  That is an area for further thought.  

Those rules of choice apply to many situations, imo, when people scream discrimination. If you choose to put yourself in a group that has discriminatory consequences, then who should put the decision right? 

I don’t think people chose to be in their 20s, 30s or 40s.

Those are the people who have our their lives on hold when realistically there was no risk to them, and are now being penalised by having to test and isolate.  Surely those fortunate enough to have had two jabs can see why those who might still be restricted for an extra couple of months are a bit peeved.

My niece and nephew, both under 30, live in Ramsey and don’t drive.

£30 each for a test.  Cost them £70 in a taxi by the time the waited at test centre 45 minutes and did a return journey.

I can see why people are annoyed.  If oldies are getting the advantages it does seem harsh that the youngsters are being disadvantaged AND having to pay for the privilege 

[madmanxpilot]

2 minutes ago, trmpton said:

I don’t think people chose to be in their 20s, 30s or 40s.

Those are the people who have our their lives on hold when realistically there was no risk to them, and are now being penalised by having to test and isolate.  Surely those fortunate enough to have had two jabs can see why those who might still be restricted for an extra couple of months are a bit peeved.

My niece and nephew, both under 30, live in Ramsey and don’t drive.

£30 each for a test.  Cost them £70 in a taxi by the time the waited at test centre 45 minutes and did a return journey.

I can see why people are annoyed.  If oldies are getting the advantages it does seem harsh that the youngsters are being disadvantaged AND having to pay for the privilege 

So should we wait until everyone has been double jabbed to make sure nobody has an advantage? 

 

 

[Nom de plume]

7 minutes ago, trmpton said:

I don’t think people chose to be in their 20s, 30s or 40s.

Those are the people who have our their lives on hold when realistically there was no risk to them, and are now being penalised by having to test and isolate.  Surely those fortunate enough to have had two jabs can see why those who might still be restricted for an extra couple of months are a bit peeved.

My niece and nephew, both under 30, live in Ramsey and don’t drive.

£30 each for a test.  Cost them £70 in a taxi by the time the waited at test centre 45 minutes and did a return journey.

I can see why people are annoyed.  If oldies are getting the advantages it does seem harsh that the youngsters are being disadvantaged AND having to pay for the privilege 

Nobody wins with Covid except Big Pharma.

[trmpton]

10 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said:

So should we wait until everyone has been double jabbed to make sure nobody has an advantage? 

 

 

No we should just crack on and let everyone have the same freedom.

Or, at the very least make it so that those who do have the extra hassle of test and isolation aren’t financially out of pocket for having to do so.

I don’t think anyone in the older age bracket can say they haven’t been looked after?

All of this was to protect them, they suffered least financially from lockdowns. Now they are double jabbed and able to travel freely while the rest of us can’t.

Just pointing out the obvious, and highlighting why some younger people feel a bit hard done by.  I know several who still work for employers who won’t let them travel while there is a risk of extended isolation so are basically unable to do weekends or short trips unless they prebook most of the annual holiday entitlement.

Should be a level playing field for all. If they won’t open up, then those of us who can come and go should at least all be treated the same.

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by trmpton

[Andy Onchan]

17 hours ago, John Wright said:

Attractive at first glance, but you’re trying to compare apples with unicorns. There’s no analogy, is there, Andy?

Mumps, Measles and Rubella are, generally, diseases of child hood and can have devastating effects. The jab protects the children, immunity is long term, so early vaccination has significant benefits.

Covid doesn’t seem to have significant effect on children who catch it, vaccination apparently offers no long term protection, probably requiring annual boosters. The benefit of vaccinating is to stop children being a vector of transmission to adults rather than protect children.

Wouldn’t say it was akin to abuse, but there are difficult ethical considerations and serious efficacy benefit analysis questions.

You missed the point as I knew you would.

[madmanxpilot]

I understand people's frustration, and perhaps those who are waiting for jabs shouldn't have to pay for testing - that seems fair enough to me.

[Roger Mexico]

54 minutes ago, 2112 said:

What does annoy me though is the testing of school children who are being given lateral testing kits to test at home. Ashie and the gang were spouting this was unreliable and yet it held us back. If it was unreliable then surely they will be unreliable now. Perhaps the border regime could have been opened earlier like Jersey but using a wider combination of testing using PCR and Lateral kits etc. 

And it still is as unreliable now.  This appeared just five days ago:

The UK medicines regulator is carrying out checks on rapid Covid-19 tests from the government’s main supplier Innova, following a stinging rebuke of the product from the US Food and Drug Administration. FDA officials raised concerns on Thursday that Innova was distributing its lateral flow tests in the US despite not having had the product approved by the regulator.

The agency also called into question the data underpinning Innova’s application for regulatory approval, saying it was an exact match of data provided by “other [test] manufacturers”.

The UK government is Innova’s biggest client worldwide, having handed the company more than £2bn in contracts. In the UK, Innova’s rapid-fire antigen tests are NHS Test and Trace-branded and used as part of a large asymptomatic testing programme in schools and workplaces.

This BMJ article has more details.

Even based on the company's own evidence (which the FDA points out looks very dodgy) LFTs aren't very good at what they are supposed to do which is detect those with the virus.  They also claim no false positives, but the Steam Packet report said they had had several among their staff.

It's fairly typical of the Manx Government that, having made the right decision for once, they then reverse it to spend lots of money on something that inconveniences a lot of local people and is no use.  Presumably on the grounds that the English do it (and no doubt some school chum of Boris's rakes in the millions).

[trmpton]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

And it still is as unreliable now.  This appeared just five days ago:

The UK medicines regulator is carrying out checks on rapid Covid-19 tests from the government’s main supplier Innova, following a stinging rebuke of the product from the US Food and Drug Administration. FDA officials raised concerns on Thursday that Innova was distributing its lateral flow tests in the US despite not having had the product approved by the regulator.

The agency also called into question the data underpinning Innova’s application for regulatory approval, saying it was an exact match of data provided by “other [test] manufacturers”.

The UK government is Innova’s biggest client worldwide, having handed the company more than £2bn in contracts. In the UK, Innova’s rapid-fire antigen tests are NHS Test and Trace-branded and used as part of a large asymptomatic testing programme in schools and workplaces.

This BMJ article has more details.

Even based on the company's own evidence (which the FDA points out looks very dodgy) LFTs aren't very good at what they are supposed to do which is detect those with the virus.  They also claim no false positives, but the Steam Packet report said they had had several among their staff.

It's fairly typical of the Manx Government that, having made the right decision for once, they then reverse it to spend lots of money on something that inconveniences a lot of local people and is no use.  Presumably on the grounds that the English do it (and no doubt some school chum of Boris's rakes in the millions).

Oh ha just a trial for people who want to do it.  No one has to.

Presumably if uptake is poor or the results turn out to be wrong then the trial will be halted.

At least they are trying some form of mitigation for once.

[Sheldon]

2 hours ago, madmanxpilot said:

Exactly. There are many examples where people are prevented from doing things because of medical conditions, size etc.  Accommodations are made where possible

My wife tells me I'm not a very nice person sometimes, but my personal favourite was seeing land whales turned away at Disneyworld for being too big to fit into the roller coaster seats which had been specially designed to fit even the morbidly obese of America.

[Gladys]

2 hours ago, trmpton said:

I don’t think people chose to be in their 20s, 30s or 40s.

Those are the people who have our their lives on hold when realistically there was no risk to them, and are now being penalised by having to test and isolate.  Surely those fortunate enough to have had two jabs can see why those who might still be restricted for an extra couple of months are a bit peeved.

My niece and nephew, both under 30, live in Ramsey and don’t drive.

£30 each for a test.  Cost them £70 in a taxi by the time the waited at test centre 45 minutes and did a return journey.

I can see why people are annoyed.  If oldies are getting the advantages it does seem harsh that the youngsters are being disadvantaged AND having to pay for the privilege 

Both my son and daughter are in their twenties and have their second jab next month.  Government can be criticised for having a couple of weeks off, definitely, but jabs are progressing and that is where pressure needs to applied.