IOM Covid removing restrictions

[TerryFuchwit]

1 hour ago, doc.fixit said:

I still don't understand the logic. Just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch it or carry it............I think?

It reduces the risk of catching it or transmitting it.  It reduces the implications if you do catch it.

That's as good as it gets hence why if you're fully vaccinated you can crack on.  

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

It hasn’t been resolved? I know someone that has just tested positive on day 6, they live with someone else 2+2 and the whole household has been been told to isolate regardless. 

When you say whole household do you mean both of them or are there more.

[TerryFuchwit]

1 minute ago, Chie said:

Given there are 2476 pages to this thread and I really am not reading each one....do you think we are really truly done with lockdowns. Or do you think there will be another one at some point given the rapid rising number of cases from known and unknown sources?.

Known and unknown sources dont matter any more.

We are in the phase of learning to live with it.  That should mean no more lockdowns.

[Happier diner]

When to self-isolate

You must self-isolate if you,

• return a positive test result
• develop COVID-19 symptoms
• are identified as a high risk contact of a positive case unless the vaccination exemption applies

[Happier diner]

Just now, Happier diner said:

When to self-isolate

You must self-isolate if you,

• return a positive test result
• develop COVID-19 symptoms
• are identified as a high risk contact of a positive case unless the vaccination exemption applies

Seems very clear to me. I think this changed friday.

[Happier diner]

41 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Seems very clear to me. I think this changed friday.

We need @John Wrightto cast his expert eyes over this wording😀

I'll be ringing them again tomorrow as I like to know these things.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

We need @John Wrightto cast his expert eyes over this wording😀

I'll be ringing them again tomorrow as I like to know these things.

Lol. 

My experience with my own,  and family, TNS, isolation and public health notices is they are badly written, the on line guidance often conflicts with what’s on the form and both conflict with the actual regulation(s). Plus, if you phone up to enquire, and speak to more than one person, you get conflicting advice.

The “best” experience I had was us both being given out of date/wrong notices as we got of the boat. Then sending someone round later the same day to hand over the correct ones ( they were still wrong ).

[thommo2010]

I read an article that kids in New Zealand are getting sick from all different types of bugs as they haven't been exposed to anything and their immune system hasn't had a chance to build. To be honest that's my big worry going forward I think come winter we will see a massive spike in flu cases. Covid will start dying out soon enough due to the vaccination programme and the virus running out of hosts to infect if the numbers keep going the same way in the uk

[John Wright]

24 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

I read an article that kids in New Zealand are getting sick from all different types of bugs as they haven't been exposed to anything and their immune system hasn't had a chance to build. To be honest that's my big worry going forward I think come winter we will see a massive spike in flu cases. Covid will start dying out soon enough due to the vaccination programme and the virus running out of hosts to infect if the numbers keep going the same way in the uk

I’d be taking that with a pinch of salt. There’s always a reservoir of “bugs” ( viruses and bacteria ) in the community. They’ve been living a normal life behind the tightly controlled border.

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, doc.fixit said:

I still don't understand the logic. Just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you can't catch it or carry it............I think?

Logic or scientific evidence seems to have very little to do with the public health measures that the Manx government has been adopting.  Though that's been pretty true from the start.

The Covid vaccines mainly work to reduce death and serious harm, but also help to stop the spread in two ways.  Firstly they make it less likely for those vaccinated to catch the disease, perhaps for AZ it's about a 60% reduction.  Secondly they reduce transmissability, how likely it is to be passed on the someone else.  Again I've seen figures of around 60% reduction.  So if the two ways work independently (they probably don't) the likelihood of catching and passing it on should be 40% x 40% = 16% of previous.  So about a sixth.

It's not without effect, but it shows that someone vaccinated, who is living with a person isolating with the virus still has a substantial risk not just of catching it themself but passing it on to others.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Roger Mexico
Double negative

[Happier diner]

48 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Lol. 

My experience with my own,  and family, TNS, isolation and public health notices is they are badly written, the on line guidance often conflicts with what’s on the form and both conflict with the actual regulation(s). Plus, if you phone up to enquire, and speak to more than one person, you get conflicting advice.

The “best” experience I had was us both being given out of date/wrong notices as we got of the boat. Then sending someone round later the same day to hand over the correct ones ( they were still wrong ).

Your experiences mirror mine. I'll be ringing again tomorrow though. They'll not get off the hook until I get an answer. But as you say it can change a day later depending upon who you speak to.

Our case is very simple. Son returns today and tests at teatime. We are off to hotel so we will not have made contact. We are both 2+2 so theoretically we dont need to do that. 

Problem is, if he gets a negative result, we return to the household but then he tests positive at day 6 we are stuffed unless of course the 'vaccination exemption ' does apply.

[Happier diner]

28 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Logic or scientific evidence seems to have very little to do with the public health measures that the Manx government has been adopting.  Though that's been pretty true from the start.

The Covid vaccines mainly work to reduce death and serious harm, but also help to stop the spread in two ways.  Firstly they make it less likely for those vaccinated to catch the disease, perhaps for AZ it's about a 60% reduction.  Secondly they reduce transmissability, how likely it is to be passed on the someone else.  Again I've seen figures of around 60% reduction.  So if the two ways work independently (they probably don't) the likelihood of catching and passing it on should be 40% x 40% = 16% of previous.  So about a sixth.

It's not not without effect, but it shows that someone vaccinated, who is living with a person isolating with the virus still has a substantial risk not just of catching it themself but passing it on to others.

I generally agree although I think you have oversimplified it, perhaps to cater for your audience.

The chance of being infected has some proportionality to the size of the does you are exposed to. An infected person who has been fully vaccinated would be expected to rid themselves of the virus before it reproduces enough to start being shed in large quantities, thus making that person less infectious.

I do agree that a vaccinated person has a resonable risk of becoming ill if they stay for long periods in the presence of an unvaccinated person who has tested positive

 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Lol. 

My experience with my own,  and family, TNS, isolation and public health notices is they are badly written, the on line guidance often conflicts with what’s on the form and both conflict with the actual regulation(s). Plus, if you phone up to enquire, and speak to more than one person, you get conflicting advice.

The “best” experience I had was us both being given out of date/wrong notices as we got of the boat. Then sending someone round later the same day to hand over the correct ones ( they were still wrong ).

Its changed again. Reinforcing (imo) that there is no need to isolate if you are 2+2 and someone in the household tests positive.

What is not it clear is what happens from that point forward. I imagine that the infected person would have to isolate from everyone.

When to self-isolate

You must self-isolate if you,

• return a positive test result
• develop COVID-19 symptoms
• are identified as a high risk contact of a positive case unless the vaccination exemption applies

Your household must self-isolate if anyone in the household returns a positive test unless the vaccination exemption applies.

In each of these cases you will receive a verbal or written Direction Notice in relation to your self-isolation requirements which must be followed.

You will also be required to self-isolate if you are:

• A returning traveller on the ‘Test to release’ Pathway 2
• A returning traveller on the ‘7 Day’ Pathway 3
• A returning traveller on the ’21 Day’ Non-testing Pathway

Vaccination Exemption

A person who has received the full course of vaccination - currently 2 injections - followed by 14 clear days since the second injection will not have to self-isolate where:

• They have been identified as a high risk contact of a positive case, or
• Where a member of their household returns a positive test result

You will be asked to provide evidence of your vaccination status when contacted by COVID-111 or Contact Tracing.

The vaccination exemption does not apply to a person who develops COVID-19 symptoms or who returns a positive test result.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Happier diner

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 hours ago, Chie said:

Given there are 2476 pages to this thread and I really am not reading each one....do you think we are really truly done with lockdowns. Or do you think there will be another one at some point given the rapid rising number of cases from known and unknown sources?.

I don’t think we’d be able to justify lockdown again.

It wouldn’t surprise me if at some point we see some measures being introduced. If masks bring us freedom to crack on, that’s a fair trade realistically. 

Though, I’d expect them to push the status quo past election season if they can. 

[doc.fixit]

One of my concerns is that a grandson who is six is coming over in August. Even though he may test clear before coming he could pick it up on the plane/ in the airports, then even though he has a test here on arrival could still be carrying it and we won't know until his next test or until one of us shows symptoms. Hypothetical I know, but.........