IOM Covid removing restrictions

[AcousticallyChallenged]

2 minutes ago, Danoo said:

So we should ration cancer treatment for example against people who drink heavily or smoke like a chimney, both medically acknowledged and proven to increase your risks of developing cancer. Both of these groups have chosen to take a lifestyle choice which is within their control, knowing the risks it entails and the likely unnecessary burden on the health service at the expense of others who choose not to engage in those practices. 

Every bottle of booze and packet of cigarettes is levied with a significant duty. They are effectively paying the premium for their lifestyle choices. 

[Danoo]

1 minute ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Every bottle of booze and packet of cigarettes is levied with a significant duty. They are effectively paying the premium for their lifestyle choices. 

Do we have separate wings of a hospital for the people who have paid a bit extra in indirect taxation? Do they get a priority bed when money is tight and resources are stretched?

[Danoo]

Anyway we're getting off point. I was merely trying to outline it's a complex issue when we start making moral judgements on lifestyle choices.

I have had the jab but if others choose not to then that's their decision. We know it doesn't stop infection or transmission but alleviates symptoms and as symptoms for most now are not serious and do not result in hospital admission, as outlined by Wrighty's post on here yesterday, then the increasingly collective herd immunity from both natural infection and vaccine-derived should see us through from here on in.  

Edited July 25, 2021 by Danoo

[CallMeCurious]

3 minutes ago, Danoo said:

Well what do you suggest? I can't tell the obese diabetic junk food loving, coca cola swilling woman down the street, who will more than likely be taking up a lot more of our health services' time and resources than most, what to do with her life. If she is lying in a hospital bed due to poor life choices and my otherwise healthy relative comes in due to an emergency do we turf her out because we are short on beds? 

These type of people will statistically meet their maker a lot sooner than most so they will have reaped the results of their life choices.  

Choices have consequences. Sometimes not ones we want, sometimes ones we didn't even consider or know at the time. All you can do is make the best choice you can with the information you have.

Thats how you cross a road. Even if you use a zebra crosing (rather than dash across when there is a gap) it may be the one time a driver is distracted, drunk or the brakes fail etc. Or you stand at the side of the road and wait until there is absolutely no traffic moving or turn back because it is too busy and decide to try later. Or you can jump in the road and stop traffic to cross or stand and shout at passing cars.

I once had to slam all almost by reflex becasue I caught movement in my peripheral vision which turned out to be a stray football followed by a kid (hidden by the parked cars) dashing after it. Another time a man ran across the road in heavy traffic without looking followed shortly after by a policeman (who did check).

All of those are options. All are choices. All have consequences. We now seem to live in a world where some want no consequences for their choices. They just want the best consequnce to be given to them regardless of their choices. To me that is literally infantile. "I wanna... I dohwanna..."

 

[TheTeapot]

People cite personal choice and stuff when it comes to not getting jabbed, like that woman organising the petition and protest outside tynwald.

That's fine, just as it is their personal choice not to take it it is my personal choice to judge them as idiots.

The even bigger idiots are the ones who pretend they've medical reasons or not taking it. Yeah, you know who you are.

They'll shout 'do your research' when you pull them up, but when you show them clear evidence that vaccines are efficient and safe they refuse to accept it.

I've had too many arguments with these idiots, both local and not. 

Fuck them, I hope they all get really sick.

 

[Ham_N_Eggs]

1 hour ago, Danoo said:

Do we have separate wings of a hospital for the people who have paid a bit extra in indirect taxation? Do they get a priority bed when money is tight and resources are stretched?

You can't spead cancer or diabetes to other people. People with dehydration from the winter vomiting bug are separated out to contain spread.

You're really poorly trolling here.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Ham_N_Eggs

[Danoo]

1 minute ago, CallMeCurious said:

Choices have consequences. Sometimes not ones we want, sometimes ones we didn't even consider or know at the time. All you can do is make the best choice you can with the information you have.

Thats how you cross a road. Even if you use a zebra crosing (rather than dash across when there is a gap) it may be the one time a driver is distracted, drunk or the brakes fail etc. Or you stand at the side of the road and wait until there is absolutely no traffic moving or turn back because it is too busy and decide to try later. Or you can jump in the road and stop traffic to cross or stand and shout at passing cars.

I once had to slam all almost by reflex becasue I caught movement in my peripheral vision which turned out to be a stray football followed by a kid (hidden by the parked cars) dashing after it. Another time a man ran across the road in heavy traffic without looking followed shortly after by a policeman (who did check).

All of those are options. All are choices. All have consequences. We now seem to live in a world where some want no consequences for their choices. They just want the best consequnce to be given to them regardless of their choices. To me that is literally infantile. "I wanna... I dohwanna..."

 

In which case we need to have a fully comprehensive menu of lifestyle options, choices and consequences. Based on clear transparent medical evidence. If we are going to do it for one topic then we do it for all. Obesity. Alcohol. Cigarettes. Junk food. Drugs (both legal and illegal). Exercise frequency....the list could go on. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Just now, Danoo said:

In which case we need to have a fully comprehensive menu of lifestyle options, choices and consequences. Based on clear transparent medical evidence. If we are going to do it for one topic then we do it for all. Obesity. Alcohol. Cigarettes. Junk food. Drugs (both legal and illegal). Exercise frequency....the list could go on. 

Are you excluding the myriad of public health campaigns on the topics you’re mentioning? 

[Zarley]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

It's that time of year.

From personal experience we have a six year-old in the family with sore throat and a cough. Tested negative for CV. 

Know a lady up the road with same symptoms (FWIW- long since double jabbed) also tested negative for CV.

Regarding family I posted about last weekend, the father tested positive for covid via both LFD & PCR.

He had a slight cough and loss of taste and smell for a few days and that's it. He is now testing negative via LFD but is in SI until Tuesday. 

He and his wife are 30+, not yet double jabbed. Wife has been fine and testing negative. 

Two young children (4yrs and 3mos) in the household have had coughs, runny noses and general malaise this past week, with negative LFD & PCR results. 

So yes, there's clearly a non-covid bug making the rounds.

[Danoo]

13 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Are you excluding the myriad of public health campaigns on the topics you’re mentioning? 

They give advice. They don't advocate for material consequences which some on here are talking about.

I have a personal dog in this fight as I am vaccinated but my daughter isn't. She had COVID a few months ago and so has natural immunity and antibodies at present so doesn't feel she needs to rush out and get the jab. I don't treat her like a leper and can see her point of view. I don't feel she is being selfish and she isn't doing it with a couldn't care less attitude for others so I'm fine with it.   

Edited July 25, 2021 by Danoo

[Max Power]

[AcousticallyChallenged]

13 minutes ago, Danoo said:

They give advice. They don't advocate for material consequences which some on here are talking about.

I have a personal dog in this fight as I am vaccinated but my daughter isn't. She had COVID a few months ago and so has natural immunity and antibodies at present so doesn't feel she needs to rush out and get the jab. I don't treat her like a leper and can see her point of view. I don't feel she is being selfish and she isn't doing it with a couldn't care less attitude for others so I'm fine with it.   

Aside from the banning of chewing tobacco, menthol cigarettes. Licensing restrictions on when and where alcohol can be sold and so forth. Sugar taxes and portion size reduction with the 100 calorie snacks campaign too. But aside from all that, you're right, nothing material.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

36 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

People cite personal choice and stuff when it comes to not getting jabbed, like that woman organising the petition and protest outside tynwald.

It's generally personal choice whether or not you strut around reeking of BO. That is your prerogative. However, you will be imposing that on those around you, and may well be ostracised as a result of your choices.

Plus, the 'do your research' lot tend to not have any research background at all. Scientific research is something you spend years learning to do, with peer review and learning from other researchers the techniques for producing good science.

 

[Sheldon]

5 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Aside from the banning of chewing tobacco, menthol cigarettes. Licensing restrictions on when and where alcohol can be sold and so forth. Sugar taxes and portion size reduction with the 100 calorie snacks campaign too. But aside from all that, you're right, nothing material.

They should only be allowed to sell chocolate digestives singly. Those things are more addictive than black tar heroin.

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Danoo said:

So we should ration cancer treatment for example against people who drink heavily or smoke like a chimney, both medically acknowledged and proven to increase your risks of developing cancer. Both of these groups have chosen to take a lifestyle choice which is within their control, knowing the risks it entails and the likely unnecessary burden on the health service at the expense of others who choose not to engage in those practices. 

I said nothing about not treating people who choose not to have the vax.