P.K. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, piebaps said: No they're not. He said the earliest they could open would be 1st June. But that was conditional. That's how I read it so September seems the more likely option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Out of the blue said: Okay, let me start with the most extreme relaxation option. Is there any clinical reason to object to the vast majority getting back to normal (with track and trace and SD where practical), leaving those with underlying conditions and/or over a certain age still locked down but supported? Wrighty, if you able to answer this in a personal capacity, I genuinely would be interested to hear your opinion. There are so many opinions, voices and debates it has just become noise. The problem with ‘clinical reasons’ are that the evidence is either weak, non-existent, or contradictory. There’s a spectrum of clinical opinion, based on what you do. Psychiatrists are seeing an increase in mental health crises so want to get going. Intensivists are worried they’ll be overwhelmed so are more cautious. Orthopaedic surgeons want to be able to get on with the day job of replacing joints etc so need the hospital back to normal functioning. Health economists are incredulous that £millions are being spent per QALY, when the usual limit is £30k. The politicians have the unenviable job of finding some balance in all this, while trying to please as many (upset as few) of the population as possible, who also have their own priorities. Again, in my personal view, I’d get back to normal ASAP while shielding the vulnerable, maintaining health and care service capacity, but keeping borders shut - UK remains a cess-pit of infection however Boris spins it. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the blue Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, wrighty said: The problem with ‘clinical reasons’ are that the evidence is either weak, non-existent, or contradictory. There’s a spectrum of clinical opinion, based on what you do. Psychiatrists are seeing an increase in mental health crises so want to get going. Intensivists are worried they’ll be overwhelmed so are more cautious. Orthopaedic surgeons want to be able to get on with the day job of replacing joints etc so need the hospital back to normal functioning. Health economists are incredulous that £millions are being spent per QALY, when the usual limit is £30k. The politicians have the unenviable job of finding some balance in all this, while trying to please as many (upset as few) of the population as possible, who also have their own priorities. Again, in my personal view, I’d get back to normal ASAP while shielding the vulnerable, maintaining health and care service capacity, but keeping borders shut - UK remains a cess-pit of infection however Boris spins it. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 It was really little kids and year 6 at primary, with the hope that those doing exams next year (so yrs10 % 12 atm) would get 'some time with teachers' in secondary. So not a full opening by any means, and no certainties. The UK is an absolute mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I assume Boris plan is to get as many back to work as possible and for that he needs some schools open as shortly they will be reducing furlough payments as Chancellor has already stated they are not sustainable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Trench Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, wrighty said: Again, in my personal view, I’d get back to normal ASAP Presumably everyone wants us to get back to normal ASAP. Just that everyone has got a different definition of ASAP. Do you specifically mean now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadic Raptor Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 It’s strange they talk about kids of construction workers and so forth being first to get back into schools which is fine. But those people working from home that have kids, their kids are going to be left behind. mysef and wife both work full time from home, and I am sure you are aware the challenges of trying to do that whilst also “teaching” kids is nigh on impossible. you might say teachers have been supporting them. We have had a phone call for one kid and another sent a letter saying when you get back to school I want to hear all about what you have been doing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southfork Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nomadic Raptor said: We have had a phone call for one kid and another sent a letter saying when you get back to school I want to hear all about what you have been doing If that’s in September and the answer is “nothing” it would be more than a bit depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, pongo said: Presumably everyone wants us to get back to normal ASAP. Just that everyone has got a different definition of ASAP. Do you specifically mean now? You’re very keen to pin me down on this for some reason. I’ll try and be precise, but for reasons I’ve stated, repeatedly, it makes no sense to say “pubs open July 23rd” or whatever. I’d go with schools, non-essential retail, office work etc, and allow social gatherings within reason - 10 people, inside or out - from now. This is just MY opinion - it’s not shared by the whole clinical group, because as I keep saying the evidence is mixed. I have more of a hard-headed economist persona than an altruistic individualist caring approach. I’d then monitor. If it went well in terms of new cases, hospital admissions, itu occupancy etc I’d move to the next stage a couple of weeks later - restaurants, cafes, hairdressers etc. If not, possibly rein back in according to information from contact tracing. I think this opinion is pretty mainstream. The only differences are in timing and pace of change. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortalpuppet Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I don’t see a full return to the curriculum for the remainder of this school year unless your kids are in a transition year. I see it more of a keeping the lights on and helping this kids in key years. I suspect there will be virtual support made available to those not able or willing to send their kids back into School. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southfork Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, wrighty said: You’re very keen to pin me down on this for some reason. I’ll try and be precise, but for reasons I’ve stated, repeatedly, it makes no sense to say “pubs open July 23rd” or whatever. You’ve explained yourself very clearly I wouldn’t worry about these trolls. Half of them don’t want to go back to work as it seems to align with the lifestyle of persistent internet moaners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Southfork said: persistent internet moaners. You've made 92 posts. Every single one of them has been moaning about something. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southfork Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: You've made 92 posts. Every single one of them has been moaning about something. That’s clearly not true. In particular I have supported the way our politicians have dealt with this so far and most of the life and death decisions that have been made. In contrast to a load of moaners who are convinced everything has been shit and that they’re all going to die if they don’t stay indoors for 6 months and it will all be someone else fault. Edited May 10, 2020 by Southfork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Southfork said: convinced everything has been shit Don't you mean sheight ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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