IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Nom de plume]

36 minutes ago, Cambon said:

But, did they simply ignore and overrule the experts? This whole thing was and is a balancing act between health and the economy. Experts from all sides were consulted. 

Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good witch hunt ffs!

[NoTailT]

3 minutes ago, Cambon said:

That is just it. Every "expert" is screaming. 

 

Agreed, especially as the pandemic has progressed. But back when this started nobody knew how long measures would need to last or the pandemic itself would last, so health should have come first. Will take a lot to convince me otherwise of that.

But this is why I really have turned off from caring what Dr Glover has to say anymore. A lot of what she was chiming on about was something you could get behind and support, many months ago. Now? Yesterdays chip paper, move along. We need to move on.

[code99]

7 hours ago, Gladys said:

Remember last year when Magson was appointed, DA was very dismissive of concerns about her not being on the ground, almost as though those raising the concerns were Luddites entirely ignorant of the benefits of modern communications.  Who was advising him?

If there has been any Luddites involved in the Manx programme for controlling Covid, let’s look no further than Dr Ewart. She rejected Dr Glover’s genomics research and now we read that she was opposed to the clinical advice from Dr Ranson.

If DA was thinking about IT /E-gaming industry then operating from anywhere in the world makes sense. However, health services are a people business, it is all about interactions between patients and medical professionals, and critically between medical staff.

I do not believe that technology has yet reached the point where senior medical professionals/ medical executives can operate as effectively remotely as they can on the ground.

[Declan]

2 hours ago, wrighty said:

Both viewpoints are valid and each has its place, but they often clash.  

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make. Sorry if I didn’t. 

[code99]

21 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

A report containing the evidence can be found here and will be laid before Tynwald in October 2021.

This report should be mandatory reading for all citizens in Douglas North.

[NoTailT]

2 minutes ago, code99 said:

This report should be mandatory reading for all citizens in Douglas North.

Print and circulate as you wish.

[Gladys]

32 minutes ago, code99 said:

If there has been any Luddites involved in the Manx programme for controlling Covid, let’s look no further than Dr Ewart. She rejected Dr Glover’s genomics research and now we read that she was opposed to the clinical advice from Dr Ranson.

If DA was thinking about IT /E-gaming industry then operating from anywhere in the world makes sense. However, health services are a people business, it is all about interactions between patients and medical professionals, and critically between medical staff.

I do not believe that technology has yet reached the point where senior medical professionals/ medical executives can operate as effectively remotely as they can on the ground.

Very simply, there is no way anyone can deliver an effective local service without being in the locale; walking the same streets as the service users, breathing the same air, living the same life, etc.  It is not about communication, it is about understanding the location, the people, the factors which apply.  

I could take part in umpty squillions of Zooms with people in New York, but would only ever have a third hand, remote understanding of what is happening in New York, on the ground.

[NoTailT]

A lot of the criticism I heard over the Abbotswood handling is because of Magson. The optical association want Magson on a crucifix and the dentists want her birched.

[Apple]

45 minutes ago, code99 said:

However, health services are a people business, it is all about interactions between patients and medical professionals, and critically between medical staff.

I do not believe that technology has yet reached the point where senior medical professionals/ medical executives can operate as effectively remotely as they can on the ground.

Good points but be careful where you go with this, especially if you are on a waiting list. 😀

In conversation with a doctor from Nobles today there are other things in the background to this story about Governance, quality issues and professionalism that may yet emerge. 

Set aside though is the closures of residential homes and the back pressure on beds in Nobles and the criticism of doing that.  Surely we really don't want to go back to the beginning when patients were being discharged before testing as in the UK leading to allegations of potentially spreading the virus unchecked into those communities, with the results we saw. That must not happen here now that we are so far down the line. 

Perhaps the pressures on the beds may have been avoided from within ? 

[Apple]

8 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

The optical association want Magson on a crucifix and the dentists want her birched.

Who are the optical association please ? And why them particularly? Interested.

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, Apple said:

Good points but be careful where you go with this, especially if you are on a waiting list. 😀

In conversation with a doctor from Nobles today there are other things in the background to this story about Governance, quality issues and professionalism that may yet emerge. 

Set aside though is the closures of residential homes and the back pressure on beds in Nobles and the criticism of doing that.  Surely we really don't want to go back to the beginning when patients were being discharged before testing as in the UK leading to allegations of potentially spreading the virus unchecked into those communities, with the results we saw. That must not happen here now that we are so far down the line. 

Perhaps the pressures on the beds may have been avoided from within ? 

My use of the term service was actually not accurate, it should be manage service delivery.

On your other point, it would be interesting whose governance, quality issues and professionalism is the focus. 

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, Apple said:

Who are the optical association please ? And why them particularly? Interested.

Presumably, the opthalmic professional association.   They are still insisting on mask wearing and applying strict social distancing.  No problem with that at all.  But not sure where the issue may be, too late in introducing measures, or too early? 

[WTF]

52 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Very simply, there is no way anyone can deliver an effective local service without being in the locale; walking the same streets as the service users, breathing the same air, living the same life, etc.  It is not about communication, it is about understanding the location, the people, the factors which apply.  

I could take part in umpty squillions of Zooms with people in New York, but would only ever have a third hand, remote understanding of what is happening in New York, on the ground.

it's a shame the US and UN don't apply this logic to the middle east, let them get on with it.

[the stinking enigma]

And risk peace? Man you is crazy

[Apple]

14 minutes ago, Gladys said:

My use of the term service was actually not accurate, it should be manage service delivery.

On your other point, it would be interesting whose governance, quality issues and professionalism is the focus. 

I think the point you make is very valid. There is no way any of these Directors, Executive Directors and Manx Care Board Members should be based and remain off island. It is impossibles in my view not only to maintain professional relationships over Teams etc but it misses out on the daily ad hoc exchanges when those opportunities arise. The message it send out to the public and those who work in the Department of Stupid and Headless Chickens (DHSC - Thanks John) is that our services are not worth any serious participation beyond the end of an email whist having lunch somewhere else.

At Nobles sometimes it's the meetings before and after the official meetings take place that can be the most informative and important, especially after the end of play over a cup of tea in the CEO's office.

Re Governance etc All I can say at the moment is I think we need to let this issue settle down first but it is quite clear that for whatever reasons the current set up is not healthy. Changes now are inevitable I would think / hope.

Manx Care has to embed itself. New pecking orders will be defined and new and constructive relationships need to be created. Hopefully a new culture may emerge, different from the one that we are told was not working and needed to be pushed aside. Some will want to be top dog in their own silo, some will keep their heads down but most will want to work collegiately for patient care improvements. It is knowing who is going to respond. It's inevitable, it is how people behave. Boundaries are important to some people as we have seen here.

Manx Care need to concentrate on strengthening our ties with services not currently on the island and grow them now into a combined Trust like operation. If anything Covid has shown we can no longer cut it on our own anymore more. Politically unacceptable I know but when all the candidates talk about protecting our health and social services what exactly do they mean. Keeping it Manx only and yet accessing high quality clinical services does not equate for some any more. 

Worth thinking about but way down the line, maybe.