AcousticallyChallenged Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Cambon said: I would rather see a law that made the vaccination mandatory for all. Sorry BS, I mean BJ, masks and especially cheap face coverings do very little for anyone. The wearing of them is more likely to harm the wearer than protect others. Have you got any evidence for that? Evidence I've seen proposes that they do afford some benefit, but it's less than 'proper' masks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: Have you got any evidence for that? Evidence I've seen proposes that they do afford some benefit, but it's less than 'proper' masks. What actual evidence? There certainly haven't been any RCTs. Been mask mandates all over the place for ages. Impact? Minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: What actual evidence? There certainly haven't been any RCTs. Been mask mandates all over the place for ages. Impact? Minimal. RCTs are probably not possible. For mass mask usage pragmatic observational studies are the best. I suspect they help, a bit, but not if the wearer is constantly fiddling, or they can’t manage to keep it over the nose, or like the lady I saw yesterday, pulls it down over the chin to enable the smoking of a fag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, wrighty said: RCTs are probably not possible. For mass mask usage pragmatic observational studies are the best. I know they aren't possible, that's kind of the point I was making. There isn't really any actual hard evidence. My pragmatic observations say that with mass mask wearing all over the world and a still rampant infection rate they don't work. I'm sure that properly fitted good quality masks have an effect in the right circumstances, I said so yesterday, but its the rest of it I dispute. I also dispute, in fact almost felt offended by it, the intimation that if you don't wear one you aren't taking things seriously enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 23 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: What actual evidence? There certainly haven't been any RCTs. Been mask mandates all over the place for ages. Impact? Minimal. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 Quote The standard RCT paradigm is well suited to medical interventions in which a treatment has a measurable effect at the individual level and, furthermore, interventions and their outcomes are independent across persons comprising a target population. By contrast, the effect of masks on a pandemic is a population-level outcome where individual-level interventions have an aggregate effect on their community as a system. Consider, for instance, the impact of source control: Its effect occurs to other individuals in the population, not the individual who implements the intervention by wearing a mask. This also underlies a common source of confusion: Most RCT studies in the field examine masks as personal protective equipment (PPE) because efficacy can be measured in individuals to whom treatment is applied, that is, “did the mask protect the person who wore it?” Even then, ethical issues prevent the availability of an unmasked control arm. The paper also discusses quite a bit of evidence around the impact of mask usage. Have a read, it links a lot of studies too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Banker said: Yes new, active & hospital cases all down despite numerous mass gatherings, night clubs etc, perhaps Ben & PK could explain? It's just pathetic. This information comes from the UK Government. This document explains the key statistics presented on the UK Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard. It was last updated on Thursday, 19 August 2021. Cases A confirmed case is someone who has tested positive for coronavirus. 36,572 new people had a confirmed positive test result reported on 19 August 2021. Between 13 August 2021 and 19 August 2021, 214,736 people had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 7.8% compared to the previous 7 days. Healthcare Some people with coronavirus have to go into hospital. 804 people with coronavirus went into hospital on 15 August 2021. Between 9 August 2021 and 15 August 2021, 5,698 went into hospital with coronavirus. This shows an increase of 5.6% compared to the previous 7 days. Deaths There were 113 deaths within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus reported on 19 August 2021. Between 13 August 2021 and 19 August 2021, there have been 674 deaths within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test. This shows an increase of 9.6% compared to the previous 7 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 The paper also discusses quite a bit of evidence around the impact of mask usage. Have a read, it links a lot of studies too. I'll have a little skeet ta. But I have some already formed thoughts. Now, obviously there is a bit of a difference between masonry dust and a virus, but I need to wear a mask a lot for work. If I'm chasing out with an angle grinder I prefer to wear a proper respirator, I don't fill my lungs with crap. But if I've left it on a different site and wear a cheaper mask (P2/P3) I'll be picking cement bogies for two days. I know the line is 'its to protect others' but frankly others should already be protected by virtue of having the vaccine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like it to me. I don't think there is any point in wearing masks anymore, if there ever was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticallyChallenged Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I'll have a little skeet ta. But I have some already formed thoughts. Now, obviously there is a bit of a difference between masonry dust and a virus, but I need to wear a mask a lot for work. If I'm chasing out with an angle grinder I prefer to wear a proper respirator, I don't fill my lungs with crap. But if I've left it on a different site and wear a cheaper mask (P2/P3) I'll be picking cement bogies for two days. I know the line is 'its to protect others' but frankly others should already be protected by virtue of having the vaccine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like it to me. I don't think there is any point in wearing masks anymore, if there ever was. Focusing on the source control rationale, I reckon there's likely something to it. Typically, when you breathe out, without a mask, you're expelling a stream of air out in front of you with some force to it. Just look at how your breath spreads in winter. A mask completely disrupts that flow, and if you're unlucky, just fogs up your glasses instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said: Focusing on the source control rationale, I reckon there's likely something to it. Typically, when you breathe out, without a mask, you're expelling a stream of air out in front of you with some force to it. Just look at how your breath spreads in winter. A mask completely disrupts that flow, and if you're unlucky, just fogs up your glasses instead. Try wearing one with safety goggles while creating loads of dust with a diamond blade spinning at 13000rpm. You can't see a fucking thing. Dangerous. Spitting in your goggles doesn't work either, and I'm very open to solutions on the steaming up thing if anyone has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Try wearing one with safety goggles while creating loads of dust with a diamond blade spinning at 13000rpm. You can't see a fucking thing. Dangerous. Spitting in your goggles doesn't work either, and I'm very open to solutions on the steaming up thing if anyone has one. Get a cushty office job 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, finlo said: Get a cushty office job You make me sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 25 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Try wearing one with safety goggles while creating loads of dust with a diamond blade spinning at 13000rpm. You can't see a fucking thing. Dangerous. Spitting in your goggles doesn't work either, and I'm very open to solutions on the steaming up thing if anyone has one. As you’ve already pointed out P2 isn’t the best but this is the only mask/goggle set I’ve found that doesn’t steam up : 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 9 hours ago, TheTeapot said: Try wearing one with safety goggles while creating loads of dust with a diamond blade spinning at 13000rpm. You can't see a fucking thing. Dangerous. Spitting in your goggles doesn't work either, and I'm very open to solutions on the steaming up thing if anyone has one. wet cut then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, WTF said: wet cut then?? Inside with an angle grinder? No thanks. Wet cut outdoors with a concrete saw sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 You boys and your power tools! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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