IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Danoo]

9 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Focusing on the source control rationale, I reckon there's likely something to it.

Typically, when you breathe out, without a mask, you're expelling a stream of air out in front of you with some force to it. Just look at how your breath spreads in winter.

A mask completely disrupts that flow, and if you're unlucky, just fogs up your glasses instead.

It doesn't disrupt the flow of viral particles. They fly right through the fabric it like a fly and a chain link fence. But you already know that, anyone with half a brain does.  

[Andy Onchan]

9 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

As you’ve already pointed out P2 isn’t the best but this is the only mask/goggle set I’ve found that doesn’t steam up :

 

 

That's real Darth Vader stuff that. Just right for the Death Start Canteen.... but you'll still need a tray.

[NoTailT]

5 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

That's real Darth Vader stuff that. Just right for the Death Start Canteen.... but you'll still need a tray.

Would trust @TheTeapotnot to whack @Bankeron the head with it.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

55 minutes ago, Danoo said:

It doesn't disrupt the flow of viral particles. They fly right through the fabric it like a fly and a chain link fence. But you already know that, anyone with half a brain does.  

Great analogy, except that, it's not correct.

Quote

The virus that causes COVID-19 is about 0.1 micrometer in diameter. (A micrometer (µm) is one one-thousandth of a millimeter.) The holes in woven cloth are visible to the naked eye and may be five to 200 micrometers in diameter. It is counter-intuitive that cloth can be useful in this setting — it’s been compared to putting up a chain-link fence to stop mosquitoes. However, that analogy is wrong in many ways.

When we breathe, talk, eat, cough, sneeze or sing, we emit particles across a range of sizes, both coarse and fine, and the virus is in those particles. Even though there are gaps between the threads in cloth, the threads are usually wider than the gaps.

Also, at this microscopic level, the thread has thickness, or depth, so the gap is more a tunnel than a window. Microfilaments from broken or irregular threads project into the gap. The particle is not like a mosquito, which can redirect itself to avoid obstacles. A particle with momentum will run into a fibre, even though the air stream is diverted around it, like a ball hitting a wall — this is called impaction.

But at the microscopic level, there are two additional processes in play. Particles also fall out of the air — called sedimentation. Some particles are moving randomly and this random motion brings them into contact with fibres — called diffusion. Finally, cloth can be used in multiple layers, adding a second and third gauntlet for the particle to run before it reaches the other side.

The point is not that some particles may penetrate the cloth, but that some are blocked.

https://theconversation.com/covid-19-masks-faqs-how-can-cloth-stop-a-tiny-virus-whats-the-best-fabric-do-they-protect-the-wearer-146822

An older article, it's from late 2020, but, it gives you an idea of why the chain link fence analogy is poor.

[Banker]

11 hours ago, P.K. said:

It's just pathetic.

This information comes from the UK Government.

This document explains the key statistics presented on the UK Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard. It was last updated on Thursday, 19 August 2021.

Cases

A confirmed case is someone who has tested positive for coronavirus.

36,572 new people had a confirmed positive test result reported on 19 August 2021.

Between 13 August 2021 and 19 August 2021, 214,736 people had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 7.8% compared to the previous 7 days.

Healthcare

Some people with coronavirus have to go into hospital.

804 people with coronavirus went into hospital on 15 August 2021.

Between 9 August 2021 and 15 August 2021, 5,698 went into hospital with coronavirus. This shows an increase of 5.6% compared to the previous 7 days.

Deaths

There were 113 deaths within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus reported on 19 August 2021.

Between 13 August 2021 and 19 August 2021, there have been 674 deaths within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test. This shows an increase of 9.6% compared to the previous 7 days.

We’re talking about the Isle of Man you  twit!!

[quilp]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Inside with an angle grinder? No thanks. Wet cut outdoors with a concrete saw sure.

Worth investing in dust guard and vacuum if you haven't already. It doesn't get all the dust but I always found it help considerably. Especially on the chaser. I used to press cling-film inside the goggles, didn’t seem to steam up so quick and when you're done just rip it out- no cleaning needed. Other than that... 

Edited August 20, 2021 by quilp

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, quilp said:

Worth investing in dust guard and vacuum if you haven't already. It doesn't get all the dust but I always found it help considerably. Especially on the chaser. I used to press cling-film inside the goggles, didn’t seem to steam up so quick and when you're done just rip it out- no cleaning needed. Other than that... 

 

I've tried the vacuum thing, it just gets in the way. I don't steam up if i'm using my proper respirator, it fits well provided I've shaved, just with masks. 

[Cambon]

12 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

The paper also discusses quite a bit of evidence around the impact of mask usage. Have a read, it links a lot of studies too.

My issue with that is it is dated January this year, and basically relates to the original variant, which was essentially not airborne. However, the virus could carry on tiny water droplets which a mask could catch and hold. Masks were relevant back then. Delta variant is totally airborne. Unless you are using a surgical grade mask or some sort of BA, you are wasting your time. 

If you want to avoid the delta variant, you need to avoid people in enclosed spaces. I recommend that you don't, though. The more exposure people have to this, the quicker it will be over. 

[Darkness Incarnate]

12 hours ago, finlo said:

Get a cushty office job

11 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

You make me sick

Yep. Nice cushty office job is not the way forward.

You will enable clinical depression sitting on your arse all day scrolling through BBC News clock watching.

No fun. 

 

[quilp]

40 minutes ago, Cambon said:

... the original variant, which was essentially not airborne.

Are you sure about this?

40 minutes ago, Cambon said:

However, the virus could carry on tiny water droplets which a mask could catch and hold.

Which is why masks should be a one-time use, and hand-gel after removal and disposal. Fabric you can run under a hot tap with squirt of washing-up liquid.

40 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Masks were relevant back then. Delta variant is totally airborne. Unless you are using a surgical grade mask or some sort of BA, you are wasting your time.

Masks are still relevant, for those considered at risk. There are lots of theories regarding masks, people are still wearing various face-coverings in shops and public transport, me included, which can't be a bad thing. Ask anyone why they're wearing one if they agree with your assertion that they're a "waste of time." And if they were a waste of time why are they still being worn in clinical settings?

40 minutes ago, Cambon said:

If you want to avoid the delta variant, you need to avoid people in enclosed spaces. I recommend that you don't, though. The more exposure people have to this, the quicker it will be over. 

Probably. Though I can't go with your recommendation... 

Edited August 20, 2021 by quilp

[NoTailT]

I was thinking to myself whilst spewing in to my face mask on the bus home last night, I'm not sure they're all they're cracked up to be at catching droplets.

[Darkness Incarnate]

4 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

I was thinking to myself whilst spewing in to my face mask on the bus home last night, I'm not sure they're all they're cracked up to be at catching droplets.

Does it not also concern you the amount of Carbon Dioxide the public must actually breathe in whilst wearing them?

Surely that's not quite good for us.

Maybe @wrighty can shed some light as I'm sure in his career he's had to wear them well before they were popular. Is there any potential side effects to mask wearing and CO2 that is produced through respiration being re-inhaled that is known about from a clinical point of view? 

[wrighty]

6 minutes ago, Darkness Incarnate said:

Does it not also concern you the amount of Carbon Dioxide the public must actually breathe in whilst wearing them?

Surely that's not quite good for us.

Maybe @wrighty can shed some light as I'm sure in his career he's had to wear them well before they were popular. Is there any potential side effects to mask wearing and CO2 that is produced through respiration being re-inhaled that is known about from a clinical point of view? 

Can't see a problem with CO2 retention really.  If your CO2 levels increase you breathe more to clear it.  I suppose it might be a problem if someone has some form of restrictive lung disease, but they're the type that really need to avoid getting covid the most, and have home oxygen etc.  For an averagely fit and healthy person CO2 retention is not going to be a problem at all.

[Darkness Incarnate]

1 minute ago, wrighty said:

Can't see a problem with CO2 retention really.  If your CO2 levels increase you breathe more to clear it.  I suppose it might be a problem if someone has some form of restrictive lung disease, but they're the type that really need to avoid getting covid the most, and have home oxygen etc.  For an averagely fit and healthy person CO2 retention is not going to be a problem at all.

Thank you for the insight. 

That's my irrational fearmongering done for the day then. 😆 

and I thought I might have been showing some signs of intelligence with that post. Oh well.

[P.K.]

19 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I am going to claim though that for the general public these should be of no concern, as the vaccines are hugely effective, and that a subsequent infection by whatever variant you want will serve mostly as an irritation to the individual and an effective booster.

I bet you havent bothered to read that link.

@TheTeapot

Au contraire!

Now I see that your opinions are driven pretty much exclusively by that single article. Which is a take on various others. Fair enough. Intrigued by the "waronscience" in the URL I did a little digging. CSPI is "The Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology". The author of the piece is a new boy having joined in February. What epidemiology has to do with partisanship and ideology I have no idea. If you google "Philippe Lemoine" you get very little back ie not mainstream. Also how the CSPI is funded is very difficult to find ie I couldn't. It's a charity of some kind because $ donations are tax-deductible.

Now none of that detracts from what he's written. But I will have to read it again making notes to fully understand where he is coming from. Now we all know eradication is simply not possible but top of the head vaccination can only bring the point of equilibrium closer. However I'm not really convinced. It's one of those "time will tell" things. 

More later.

Edited August 20, 2021 by P.K.