IOM Covid removing restrictions

[ricardo]

18 hours ago, Debbie said:

 

Thanks for your opinion on lockdown. But that was not my question. My question was... which one of the possible candidates for Chief Minister offers us more guarantee to resist the damn lockdowners and keep the island open (as it is now); as well as avoiding dictatorial restrictions on the un-vaccinated (le moi being one of those “undesirables”).
 

 

Bloomberg is a stupid leftist media outlet known for sprouting the usual vaccination gospel. There are plenty of serious delusions in that Bloomberg article you quoted. For instance, it is not true that covid has been the most deadly pandemic since the Spanish flue: the Hong Kong flue killed four million people in its the first 1968 year in a world with half of today’s population (and back then they just took it on the chin).

Considering that a natural covid infection provides a more robust immunity than the covid vaccines by a factor of ten at the least (cf. that Israeli study); obviously the covid pandemic will end through waves of natural infections rather than with phantasmagorical gene therapies or other kinds of deviant vaccines. In the long run a covid infection is going to be no more serious than a cold, for nearly all of us.

 

16 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Are you a virologist or just full of silly half baked views. 

 

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

That's because of the vaccines, not because of natural immunity. Ask the relatives of those who died in the first two waves if they think they died from a cold. Or don't they count?

 

Debbie; sadly I suspect you are almost certainly wasting your time if you hope for a coherent response here. In regards to the question you asked I personally have little hope that any potential CM will act independently or intelligently over any future crisis - the likelihood is that they will simply 'ape' the UK. Or more accurately, do as told by Whitehall. Unless of course we get Allinson, who is almost certainly as potentially dangerous as the political lunatics currently in charge in Australia. Anyone here who doubts the potential level of danger the British Isles faces would do well to look at the 'alternative media' covering the legitimate protests in Melbourne and Sydney. Believing these appalling scenes could not happen here would be extremely unwise. For that is what they believed in Australia until recently.

Happier Diner; by 'half baked views' are you simply referring to perspectives you don't agree with?

Andy Onchan; the phrase 'cognitive dissonance' is often used regarding issues around covid, by both 'sides', for good reason. The gap between the different perspectives takes some bridging. Although I recognise this will sound unhinged to many/most I would liken it to the cognitive dissonance that victims and their families must have experienced upon hearing the rumours about Dr Harold Shipman. Rumours that said he was not the kindly local GP they believed him to be, but was in fact a ruthless serial killer. Coming to terms with that awful reality must have been a deeply traumatic process for many - no doubt some preferred to remain in denial rather than face it.

I say this because there is ample and growing evidence that ventilators and the drug medazolam were used to shorten the life of many elderly people suffering from covid. Whether this was done unknowingly as a result of incompetence, remains to be established. There are though, many rumours - 'conspiracy theories' if you prefer - currently raging as to whether a more malign agenda was at work. It is easy and tempting to 'rubbish' these as absurd but the issues are so serious that they demand to be aired in an appropriate tribunal.

 

It is an almost certainty that the 'covid agenda' is about much more than a virus. Under the guise of 'fighting the virus' we have all experienced increasing state control, at a level never previously seen outside of wartime. History tells us governments never return freedoms. We appear to be edging ever more quickly towards totalitarianism and by ridiculing others and/or bickering amongst ourselves, or dismissing these things as impossible, we allow these measures to continue. The law-abiding population in 1930's democratic Germany allowed their government to divide their society into 'us and them' - we know where that led. Beware.

 

[Amadeus]

This been posted already? 

https://covid19.gov.im/media/1869/strategicapproach1009.pdf

[Happier diner]

Just now, ricardo said:

 

 

 

Debbie; sadly I suspect you are almost certainly wasting your time if you hope for a coherent response here. In regards to the question you asked I personally have little hope that any potential CM will act independently or intelligently over any future crisis - the likelihood is that they will simply 'ape' the UK. Or more accurately, do as told by Whitehall. Unless of course we get Allinson, who is almost certainly as potentially dangerous as the political lunatics currently in charge in Australia. Anyone here who doubts the potential level of danger the British Isles faces would do well to look at the 'alternative media' covering the legitimate protests in Melbourne and Sydney. Believing these appalling scenes could not happen here would be extremely unwise. For that is what they believed in Australia until recently.

Happier Diner; by 'half baked views' are you simply referring to perspectives you don't agree with?

Andy Onchan; the phrase 'cognitive dissonance' is often used regarding issues around covid, by both 'sides', for good reason. The gap between the different perspectives takes some bridging. Although I recognise this will sound unhinged to many/most I would liken it to the cognitive dissonance that victims and their families must have experienced upon hearing the rumours about Dr Harold Shipman. Rumours that said he was not the kindly local GP they believed him to be, but was in fact a ruthless serial killer. Coming to terms with that awful reality must have been a deeply traumatic process for many - no doubt some preferred to remain in denial rather than face it.

I say this because there is ample and growing evidence that ventilators and the drug medazolam were used to shorten the life of many elderly people suffering from covid. Whether this was done unknowingly as a result of incompetence, remains to be established. There are though, many rumours - 'conspiracy theories' if you prefer - currently raging as to whether a more malign agenda was at work. It is easy and tempting to 'rubbish' these as absurd but the issues are so serious that they demand to be aired in an appropriate tribunal.

 

It is an almost certainty that the 'covid agenda' is about much more than a virus. Under the guise of 'fighting the virus' we have all experienced increasing state control, at a level never previously seen outside of wartime. History tells us governments never return freedoms. We appear to be edging ever more quickly towards totalitarianism and by ridiculing others and/or bickering amongst ourselves, or dismissing these things as impossible, we allow these measures to continue. The law-abiding population in 1930's democratic Germany allowed their government to divide their society into 'us and them' - we know where that led. Beware.

 

The reason I made the comment was mostly in the way @Debbies post ended. It started well but ended very badly. In my opinion of course.

The bit that made me angry was the bit about natural infection giving 6* better immunity. Debbie gives no reference for this claim other than saying c.f Isreal. Well c.f. means compare (or compare and contrast). Doesn't make any sense and i cannot find this

Currently, testing has shown that vaccine immunity starts to wane after 6months and is lower after 12. Even then we are told it is still effective against serious illness and death. So how can anyone say natural infection gives 6* better protection as we would have to wait for another 2 years to see if that were true.

The other issue I have is that catching it is not a good way to get immunity. I have seen the effects of catching it very close to home. It was a glib and silly statement.

Of course @Debbiehas opportunity on here to reference her words or clarify her reasoning/opinion

One thing you will find on here is that contributors will challenge postings that have no reference unless it is clearly stated to be an opinion

[quilp]

10 hours ago, ricardo said:

The law-abiding population in 1930's democratic Germany allowed their government to divide their society into 'us and them' - we know where that led. Beware.

What? The "law-abiding" population of 1930's Germany were a desperate people. Unemployment, war reparations, little in the way of social care, families starving, people were still dying because of their teeth. A population with few prospects living in endless poverty; millions of them. This burgeoning plight had been evolving since the end of the 'Great War.' Societal divisions were always rife; communists, national socialists, et al. An 'us and them' atmosphere had existed for decades.

A population like that was malleable, easy meat for a group of organised, mafia-style political gangsters promising a new world order, the Nazi's had ambition. Then, shrewdly of course, a target to unite them all was created- Jews. The conspiracy worked, and the world knows what happened next.

Totally different to the equivalency you're using to over-dramatise the Antipodean situation.

Edited September 30, 2021 by quilp

[The Chief]

i thought the conspiracy theory bellends had their own thread they can populate with their utter nonsense. 

Funny though like real outside life, as soon as people move on to other things back they come spouting whatever bullshit they want to get the attention they crave.

it's about time a study was made on how many covid deniers were middle children!!

[The Phantom]

I think that Ashy might have delusions that he's Jack Ryan! 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/covid-still-presents-clear-and-present-danger/

 

[NoTailT]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

I think that Ashy might have delusions that he's Jack Ryan! 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/covid-still-presents-clear-and-present-danger/

 

Funny how all this hyperbole bs stopped in the few months before the election. Now he's back at it. Grab he got the memo that nobody in the Keys wants him to be CM.

[James Blonde]

Covid David Ashford still presents 'clear and present danger' [to Manx economy]

[AcousticallyChallenged]

5 hours ago, ricardo said:

I say this because there is ample and growing evidence that ventilators and the drug medazolam were used to shorten the life of many elderly people suffering from covid. Whether this was done unknowingly as a result of incompetence, remains to be established. There are though, many rumours - 'conspiracy theories' if you prefer - currently raging as to whether a more malign agenda was at work. It is easy and tempting to 'rubbish' these as absurd but the issues are so serious that they demand to be aired in an appropriate tribunal.

 

It is an almost certainty that the 'covid agenda' is about much more than a virus. Under the guise of 'fighting the virus' we have all experienced increasing state control, at a level never previously seen outside of wartime. History tells us governments never return freedoms. We appear to be edging ever more quickly towards totalitarianism and by ridiculing others and/or bickering amongst ourselves, or dismissing these things as impossible, we allow these measures to continue. The law-abiding population in 1930's democratic Germany allowed their government to divide their society into 'us and them' - we know where that led. Beware.

 

This is a huge accusation you are making.

Shall we recall that generally, people going on a ventilator aren't in a good way anyway. Speculation like yours only negates the tireless work of medics around the world.

The whole control conspiracy quickly falls apart when, you realise that a pandemic to shoot yourself in the foot economically isn't needed. Nearly everyone carries the biggest tool for influence in human history in their pocket. That tool collects every piece of data it can about them. Turns out, you can win and lose elections on them.

So, you can make people wear a mask and cost yourself billions, or you can fundamentally control lives without anything invasive. Which do you go for as a politician or dictator?

The only construable benefit to the UK Government has been that Boris has been able to blame the economic depression  and ongoing issues solely on COVID rather than Brexit.

[ricardo]

5 hours ago, Happier diner said:

The reason I made the comment was mostly in the way @Debbies post ended. It started well but ended very badly. In my opinion of course.

The bit that made me angry was the bit about natural infection giving 6* better immunity. Debbie gives no reference for this claim other than saying c.f Isreal. Well c.f. means compare (or compare and contrast). Doesn't make any sense and i cannot find this

Currently, testing has shown that vaccine immunity starts to wane after 6months and is lower after 12. Even then we are told it is still effective against serious illness and death. So how can anyone say natural infection gives 6* better protection as we would have to wait for another 2 years to see if that were true.

The other issue I have is that catching it is not a good way to get immunity. I have seen the effects of catching it very close to home. It was a glib and silly statement.

Of course @Debbiehas opportunity on here to reference her words or clarify her reasoning/opinion

One thing you will find on here is that contributors will challenge postings that have no reference unless it is clearly stated to be an opinion

I accept the valid points you make. Hopefully @Debbie will also

 

2 hours ago, The Chief said:

i thought the conspiracy theory bellends had their own thread they can populate with their utter nonsense. 

Funny though like real outside life, as soon as people move on to other things back they come spouting whatever bullshit they want to get the attention they crave.

it's about time a study was made on how many covid deniers were middle children!!

 

Approximately half the US population believe their government had some involvement in the assassination of their president John F Kennedy in 1963. Their belief is hardly without good reason, given the preposterous ‘bouncing bullet’ theory/explanation offered by their government. Hopefully you're not suggesting all of these 80 million plus people are ‘bell-ends’. A similar proportion either believe or ‘don’t know’ if their government had a hand in the events of September 11th 2001. There is a significant body of evidence - take a look at so-called ‘building 7’ should you be interested (and the BBC’s report of that building’s collapse before it did so*) - that highlights major discrepancies with the US government narrative. The ‘conspiracy theorists’ beliefs are far from baseless. Whether one chooses to dismiss these views or not it is generally accepted that each of the major armed conflicts over the last 100 years were either provoked or contributed to by manufactured so-called ‘false flag’ events. Sadly this is how the more ‘shadowy’ aspects of governments usually work. Your point however, was whether conjecture about covid should be confined to a thread for so-called conspiracy theorists.

 

The reality is that instead of encouraging healthy debate about the deadly serious issues relating to covid, this forum’s moderator chose to corral legitimate discussion into a thread entitled “Anti-vaxxer and covid denier” thereby ridiculing and discouraging such debate and discussion. Whilst I am sure a thread entitled “Conspiracy theories” would elicit rich and interesting discussion - and no doubt much amusement - the ‘covid story’ is too serious to be dismissed in such a way. In my own experience, few who question the ‘official narrative’ are actually 'covid deniers’ - most accept there is a very nasty bug or virus of some kind going around, and it is making some people very sick. Or worse. Just as 'flu has done. Likewise, in my experience few questioners are ‘anti-vax’ either - most accept that tried and proven vaccines have been hugely beneficial for humanity (although only cursory research discovers major flaws in the myths propagated by the pharma industry). This thread though is about the removal of covid restrictions. I AM suggesting the speedily imposed restrictions have been about more than supposed health concerns. Whether this is true or not, it is a fact that we have experienced greater restrictions upon our liberties than previously seen outside wartime. As stated previously governments’ track record in returning people’s liberties is not good so this ought to be concerning for all of us. My own belief (opinion) is that there is a malign agenda at work, which I base on 00’s of hours of research, in my own attempt to sift fact from fiction - not just looking at 'nonsense' on YouTube. I raise these subjects not in a search for attention but in the hope of encouraging others to do a little more research into the - still experimental - vaccines, particularly before deciding to inject these into their own young children. And a hope of bringing more attention to the ongoing government invasion into all our lives.

 

Currently, hundreds of 000’s of normally law-abiding Australians are protesting against the severe ‘lockdowns’ and mandatory vaccination program being forced upon them - based almost entirely upon so-called ‘cases’ produced by the deeply flawed PCR tests, rather than an actual ‘pandemic’. These protests - normally an accepted part of democracies - are being brutally suppressed by their police, using tear gas and rubber bullets, something not seen before in Australia. Many mainstream politicians have expressed their outrage. Little of these dramatic events are being reported by the mainstream media, who seem more intent on blanket promotion of the still unproven vaccines - and suppression of any contrary view. Whatever one’s views on vaccination, the direction Australia is heading appears ominous. Many of us agree our politicians are inept, or worse. Allowing them increased powers and impositions upon our hard-won liberties is something we might choose to question more. Especially given these infringements are being imposed to deal with a virus that has a 99.98% recovery rate, and where the average age of deaths is older than average life expectancy. I am again suggesting - my opinion - that something about this entire narrative is deeply questionable.

 

* https://youtu.be/677i43QfYpQ

 

[ricardo]

1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

This is a huge accusation you are making.

Shall we recall that generally, people going on a ventilator aren't in a good way anyway. Speculation like yours only negates the tireless work of medics around the world.

The whole control conspiracy quickly falls apart when, you realise that a pandemic to shoot yourself in the foot economically isn't needed. Nearly everyone carries the biggest tool for influence in human history in their pocket. That tool collects every piece of data it can about them. Turns out, you can win and lose elections on them.

So, you can make people wear a mask and cost yourself billions, or you can fundamentally control lives without anything invasive. Which do you go for as a politician or dictator?

The only construable benefit to the UK Government has been that Boris has been able to blame the economic depression  and ongoing issues solely on COVID rather than Brexit.

 

To be clear I am not making an accusation. It is a fact that medazolam was used to bring lives to an end. I - and many others - am asking a question about whether this, and ventilation, was used appropriately. Hopefully this, and the many other questions around the entire 'covid story' can be addressed in a much needed public enquiry about all aspects of the way it was handled by the Manx government. As called for by Stuart Gale QC in this weeks Examiner newspaper.

 

 

[Anyone]

Now I’m doubled jabbed I thought why not get covid to boost antibodies. Thing is I don’t know anyone personally who has had covid nor do I know anyone who knows someone who has had covid. Makes me think only careless buggers get covid. So just wear a mask in the shops and don’t hug people. Then your chance of getting covid are reduced by quite a bit.

[quilp]

@ricardo Midazolam is administered as a palliative, given to end-of-life patients. People dying of respiratory failure often become panicked when they're in their final stages; without some sort of sedative, the gasping for air is hell, and undignified. Not a nice way to go. Becalmed by Midazolam, patients slip away a little easier, maybe a little more expeditiously, but better for any family present too. If I'm gonna die that way I'd prefer to be transported into a tranquil and serene semi-catatonic state knowing fuck-all about it and not alarming anyone present.

You're saying it was used for nefarious reasons, to specifically euthanise patients, with aforethought. Midazolam is widely used in end-of-life care, how can it be proven as alleged? 

Edited September 30, 2021 by quilp

[WTF]

46 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Now I’m doubled jabbed I thought why not get covid to boost antibodies. Thing is I don’t know anyone personally who has had covid nor do I know anyone who knows someone who has had covid.

ashie knows someone who has had it 4 times , perhaps he can help you out.

[Max Power]

On 9/29/2021 at 5:05 PM, Debbie said:

Bloomberg is a stupid leftist media outlet known for sprouting the usual vaccination gospel. There are plenty of serious delusions in that Bloomberg article you quoted.

You forgot to add, 'In my opinion'.