IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Out of the blue]

1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

Politicians dont liketo admit they were wrong, just look at the bus lane on glencrutchery road. I dont think theres any great conspiracy theory in my opinion in the beginning governments were seeing pictures from wuhan of people dropping dead in the streets didnt know what we were dealing with and done such a good job of scaring people to keep them in (i agree with the early restrictions by the way) that now they are having a tough time trying to get out of it. They cant just turn around after decimating businesses airline industry etc and say sorry we over reacted. 

I could be well out and this winter sees millions of us drop dead but at the moment a lot of people are ignoring the restrictions in the uk cases are up death and hospital admissions are low which suggests the virus has ran its course. 

As I say all the above is my opinion and I may be well wrong.

I think you echo many peoples sentiments.  Politicians around the world have started out with good intentions, but inadvertently mission creep has taken over. They have driven in to a Covid cul de sac and they have either bought into the cult of Covid or just cannot see a face saving way out. We can only hope for a vaccine that will justify some political manoeuvring room. It is asking too much of a small island jurisdiction to lead with this, so enjoy our relative freedom and let it all play out. I look forward to reading the historians take on this mess in the decades to come, assuming I haven’t succumbed to this ‘wicked disease’.

[Nom de plume]

12 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

I think you echo many peoples sentiments.  Politicians around the world have started out with good intentions, but inadvertently mission creep has taken over. They have driven in to a Covid cul de sac and they have either bought into the cult of Covid or just cannot see a face saving way out. We can only hope for a vaccine that will justify some political manoeuvring room. It is asking too much of a small island jurisdiction to lead with this, so enjoy our relative freedom and let it all play out. I look forward to reading the historians take on this mess in the decades to come, assuming I haven’t succumbed to this ‘wicked disease’.

So true. They’ll never admit they might have over-reacted.

[Anyone]

58 minutes ago, pongo said:

It's not the downfall of govt money. In many ways it's the triumph of govt money. It's govt money as an instrument being used to solve real problems.

But obviously it shouldn't be considered an investment. 

Not really relevant as the IOM does not have money so can’t follow MMT ( which most mainstream economists dismiss anyway ). And inflation is not good as you think and MMT deals with that by increasing taxes ( personal and corporate ) to reduce spending power , or effectively give that spending power back to big government.

[Out of the blue]

8 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

So true. They’ll never admit they might have over-reacted.

Apart from the initial phases where nobody was quite sure what we were dealing with, to my recollection never have so many peoples rights and liberties been curtailed to protect so few...

[Banker]

1 hour ago, tetchtyke said:

Most of it is mandatory and the bits that aren't may as well be. It's a brave headteacher who doesn't insist, even in areas without it.

I didn't mention primary school children? But since you did, in Scotland they need to be masked up on the school bus. A 5yo having to wear a mask to school. Madness.

The border rules mean we don't need those other rules. So I'm quite happy with the status quo for now. People can leave and return if they need to and the rest of us don't need to wear a mask or queue in Tesco's car park. That suits me, and I've also got family across I've not seen since March.

You mentioned all school kids in England have to wear Face masks all day! When challenged that this is not true you mention Scotland which last time I checked is a different country run by that crackpot jimmy kranke.

so as I said this is typical Covid scare story saying this is what will happen if you don’t listen to government 

[pongo]

5 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Not really relevant as the IOM does not have money so can’t follow MMT ( which most mainstream economists dismiss anyway ). And inflation is not good as you think and MMT deals with that by increasing taxes ( personal and corporate ) to reduce spending power , or effectively give that spending power back to big government.

So the point was about what the UK would do.

But it makes no difference given that the IOM economy is part of the wider British economy. And given that the IOM is part of the Sterling currency area.

I agree that mainstream economists rejected MMT. But you have to offset that against the fact that central banks and govts are effectively in the process of adopting it.

ETA: I'm neither proposing MMT nor inflation. I'm observing what is actually unfolding.

Edited September 6, 2020 by pongo

[Anyone]

3 minutes ago, pongo said:

So the point was about what the UK would do.

But it makes no difference given that the IOM economy is part of the wider British economy. And given that the IOM is part of the Sterling currency area.

I agree that mainstream economists rejected MMT. But you have to offset that against the fact that central banks and govts are effectively in the process of adopting it.

Well yes and no. QE is not MMT.  The IOM has no economic levers such as money supply , interest rates and QE. You are correct that the IOM is tied economically to the UK but that only begs the question why pretend to be quasi-independent. Without having a currency and a central bank no country can be independent. So the conclusion of your argument surely is that the IOM should become part of the UK as in effect it probably already is apart from its tax regime ( and any tax revenue for the UK from the IOM if UK rates were applied would be pretty insignificant , bit like Burnley having its own tax regime , which is probably the UK is not that bothered).

[pongo]

39 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Well yes and no. QE is not MMT.  The IOM has no economic levers such as money supply , interest rates and QE. You are correct that the IOM is tied economically to the UK but that only begs the question why pretend to be quasi-independent. Without having a currency and a central bank no country can be independent. So the conclusion of your argument surely is that the IOM should become part of the UK as in effect it probably already is apart from its tax regime ( and any tax revenue for the UK from the IOM if UK rates were applied would be pretty insignificant , bit like Burnley having its own tax regime , which is probably the UK is not that bothered).

I'm fascinated by how economies are unfolding in general. And people's understanding of money in particular - ie what people think money actually is. I'm not proposing solutions or arguing the rights and wrongs of it all.

The MMTers and the hard-currency people seem to have both won their corners currently in different ways. You can see how they could sort of co-exist in different contexts. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by pongo

[Declan]

6 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Conspiracy time - there is no case. People have been getting gobby and complacent for a while now, it's a reminder of control, you've had your state sponsored BIG weekend piss-up, kids are going back to school, knuckle down and behave shitheads.

Well, I think it is genuine case. But it’s a useful one Quayle. 

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

So true. They’ll never admit they might have over-reacted.

Not the brightest light on the tree, are you?

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Scotland which last time I checked is a different country run by that crackpot jimmy kranke.

so as I said this is typical Covid scare story saying this is what will happen if you don’t listen to government 

Your Covid nonsense posts and IOM Govt bashing have reached a new low - when border restrictions are eased fuck off back to Boris 

[Nom de plume]

15 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Not the brightest light on the tree, are you?

Not in your league.

[Anyone]

42 minutes ago, pongo said:

I'm fascinated by how economies are unfolding in general. And people's understanding of money in particular - ie what people think money actually is. I'm not proposing solutions or arguing the rights and wrongs of it all.

The MMTers and the hard-currency people seem to have both won their corners currently in different ways. You can see how they could sort of co-exist in different contexts. 

Maybe you should read Joy of Tax by Richard Murphy. Bit left field but does provide a different perspective , not that I agree with him but that’s not the point is it?

[John Wright]

I decided to go travelling this summer. So far I’ve crossed the following international borders by ferry and plane. The regulations are various. But all the systems have visibly failed as experienced by me.

UK Spain by ferry. Had to fill out a Covid arrival form and temperature taken. The forms were collected on the car deck before disembarkation. Stuffed into a shopping bag. Not checked. I could have filled in anything, not that I’m that irresponsible. Next car occupants were late returning to car, crew didn’t return to take temperature or collect forms.

Spain Italy by ferry. Covid landing form supposed to be necessary and a test. Neither asked for. I’d had a PCR test, and negative result, from a clinic in Spain. Was only transiting Italy.

Italy Greece by ferry. Had to show my negative PCR and a form to board. Applied for an online registration for Greek entry. Sent a QR code. One of questions was did I have the negative PCR. Answered correctly. QR started with 6 if you’d tested negative or 7 if you’d not tested at all. Arrival Greece my QR showed 7. Everyone on ferry was a 7. Long queue in 35° sun, no shade for anyone, to be swabbed. Again was only transiting, 4 hours. Wheeled to front of queue. Told them I had my e-negative result. Nurse said system was crap, and waved me through, no swab and didn’t check the test certificate.

Greece-Bulgaria land border. Just long queues. Nothing. 

Bulgaria Spain by plane. Forms required. Temperature taken on arrival in Barcelona. Form taken but not checked against passport.

im now in rural Spain. The local authority area here has had no positives at all. Neither have the two on either side. I’m not going to Barcelona or Stiges or the coast.

On arrival in Spain 3 weeks ago I downloaded their track & trace app. Every week I get a text, in English, confirming if I’ve had contact And need to be tested. I haven’t. If I do have contact there would be a text confirming immediately. That does seem to work. It’s quite reassuring.

Everyone here seems to be mask and distancing compliant. It’s been hard to get used to. Ryanair flight, 3 hours with mask, was uncomfortable.

Ive got the Reopen EU website on a link. It’s updated every 24 hours with all border restrictions. The restrictions are highly political and bear no relationship to prevalence rates. I’m supposed to return to Bulgaria to pick up a car and bring it back to Spain. In early August Italy imposed restrictions on anyone who had been in Bulgaria in the 14 days prior to arrival. That rather screwed the plans. The Hungary, Austria and Germany did the same, closing the long land route around the top of Italy. This was despite Bulgaria having a lower prevalence rate than 12 EU countries that weren’t restricted. The Spanish National rate is 12 times the Bulgarian rate.

anyway, with effect tomorrow Italy has removed the restriction. So later this month I’m flying back to Sofia, picking up the car and sailing from Greece to Italy. I’ll have to have a PCR before entering Greece and fill out a form. . 

The ferries out were deserted. 1/4 full. Most facilities closed. They’re huge ships. A bit Marie Celeste. Grimaldi Minoan had sold me tickets ( last November ) including bottled water in my cabin fridge and WiFi. To save cash they’ve turned off the Inmarsat internet, for the whole boat.  Not even working for EPOS in the self service cafe. These are 20+ hour sailings. Stuffed if you didn’t have cash. 

Both trips had intermediate stops, in Porto Torres Sardinia and Corfu. The onboard computer manifest had us down as disembarking at these ports so each morning from 6 I had banging on cabin door at 15 minute intervals from 6 am. Demanding to see tickets when we didn’t vacate, and after leaving the ports trying to get in to clean the cabin.  Actually made the Steam Packet experience seem first class!

[dilligaf]

39 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Not in your league.

My filament burned out years ago. I don’t claim to be smart.