IOM Covid removing restrictions

[the stinking enigma]

13 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I’m not too sure my wife would be that chuffed if I pissed off for a few months on my own.

Nope. I'm sure she wouldn't 

[dilligaf]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I survived leukaemia. I was close to death this time 3 years ago. I’m getting on with my life. I’ve very carefully risk assessed, to the best of my ability, based on the info that’s available. Places I’ve been to, and am staying, have rates well below the UK, well below the 1 in 5000 that will trigger stage 3 in IOM 

So, offence taken ?

[finlo]

47 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Why not just wait a year. ? Was it so important to go away ? You are a mod and will no doubt ban me again for having the audacity to question you. But , whatever. We have missed out on 5 holidays this year, but are not complaining, having got most money refunded. You are high risk like I am, so why go to all the hassle and risk for a break in the sun ? We aren’t getting any younger, but we will still be here next year, I hope, so can maybe get a sunny break. You have shocked me TBH

As i think most on here are of a similar age demographic some of us won't be here next year so you have to do it while you can!

[John Wright]

33 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Why not just wait a year. ? Was it so important to go away ? You are a mod and will no doubt ban me again for having the audacity to question you. But , whatever. We have missed out on 5 holidays this year, but are not complaining, having got most money refunded. You are high risk like I am, so why go to all the hassle and risk for a break in the sun ? We aren’t getting any younger, but we will still be here next year, I hope, so can maybe get a sunny break. You have shocked me TBH

I booked the trip 9 months ago. All pre planned. I did think of cancelling. I’ve cancelled several trips away. 

Was there good reason? That is for me to judge. Two attempted break ins here meant I want to improve security. Mission accomplished.

Then my bankers in Spain and Bulgaria both froze my accounts at start of lockdown. Both wanted up to date KYC and personal attendance to sign on a screen in branch. I tried via power of attorney, notarised, apostilled. No go. They wouldn’t let me pay in to top up. I only put funds in to pay utilities, management charges, local taxes. They emptied the accounts. Didn’t want to end up in debt and having the local equivalent of the coroner selling me up.

I expect things to get worse over winter, so this was a window of opportunity. I talked to my Doctor. I checked infection rates. I risk assessed. I’ve stayed safe. 

My post was personal. Not as moderator. I was trying to point out how diverse and irrational the border regulations are, everywhere, and whilst alleged to be science based they’re politically capricious and subject to human frailty at point of application.

[dilligaf]

Just now, finlo said:

As i think most on here are of a similar age demographic some of us won't be here next year so you have to do it while you can!

If I thought I wasn’t going to be here next year,  I would be fulfilling a few wishes, ( in my dreams). Seriously though, travel abroad would not be a priority. Family would be my first consideration. Putting everything right with family is more impotant 5han a few weeks in 5he sun.

[dilligaf]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

I booked the trip 9 months ago. All pre planned. I did think of cancelling. I’ve cancelled several trips away. 

Was there good reason? That is for me to judge. Two attempted break ins here meant I want to improve security. Mission accomplished.

Then my bankers in Spain and Bulgaria both froze my accounts at start of lockdown. Both wanted up to date KYC and personal attendance to sign on a screen in branch. I tried via power of attorney, notarised, apostilled. No go. They wouldn’t let me pay in to top up. I only put funds in to pay utilities, management charges, local taxes. They emptied the accounts. Didn’t want to end up in debt and having the local equivalent of the coroner selling me up.

I expect things to get worse over winter, so this was a window of opportunity. I talked to my Doctor. I checked infection rates. I risk assessed. I’ve stayed safe. 

My post was personal. Not as moderator. I was trying to point out how diverse and irrational the border regulations are, everywhere, and whilst alleged to be science based they’re politically capricious and subject to human frailty at point of application.

We have had the same with Spanish banks. Needed to appear at their  branch. But unable to even go to their country

[finlo]

14 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

If I thought I wasn’t going to be here next year,  I would be fulfilling a few wishes, ( in my dreams). Seriously though, travel abroad would not be a priority. Family would be my first consideration. Putting everything right with family is more impotant 5han a few weeks in 5he sun.

You are probably right but i was just giving possible justifications to other's decisions.

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

If I thought I wasn’t going to be here next year,  I would be fulfilling a few wishes, ( in my dreams). Seriously though, travel abroad would not be a priority. Family would be my first consideration. Putting everything right with family is more impotant 5han a few weeks in 5he sun.

It’s not been a sea sand sun or sangria trip.

Whilst I was sorting out security I got builders in to sort out ramps between various patio levels and between the kitchen and living room in Spain. I’m sorting out a wheelchair hoist in the vehicle I use in Bulgaria. I’m having a stair lift installed here in Spain.

Meanwhile at home new carpets have been laid lounge, diner, landing and stairs, and a stairlift is going in. House would have been unliveable.

I think my reasons and what I’m getting done are important and justify my trip.

[dilligaf]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It’s not been a sea sand sun or sangria trip.

Whilst I was sorting out security I got builders in to sort out ramps between various patio levels and between the kitchen and living room in Spain. I’m sorting out a wheelchair hoist in the vehicle I use in Bulgaria. I’m having a stair lift installed here in Spain.

Meanwhile at home new carpets have been laid lounge, diner, landing and stairs, and a stairlift is going in.

I think my reasons and what I’m getting done are important and justify my trip.

Like I said previously, each to their own. Good on you for sorting things out. I assume that wasn’t Spain ?

[thesultanofsheight]

15 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Putting everything right with family is more impotant 5han a few weeks in 5he sun.

Literally sounds like you’re planning your own funeral and reducing it to just holidays is just trying to close down any form of debate by making it sound elitist. John is clearly not on a holiday in the conventional sense and what’s wrong with getting away from this mental situation and seeing a bit of the world provided you have your eyes open and take sensible precautions? A holiday in this environment makes little sense but just pissing off from this total madness for 6 months or more is I’m sure attractive to many. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[dilligaf]

8 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Literally sounds like you’re planning your own funeral and reducing it to just holidays is just trying to close down the debate. John is clearly not on a holiday in the conventional sense and what’s wrong with getting away from this mental situation and seeing a bit of the world. A holiday in this environment makes little sense but just pissing off from this total madness for 6 months or more is I’m sure attractive to many. 

Thanks. I assume John does not need you to speak on his behalf. You implied that time was a factor. I explained what my own priority would be , being a family man. Sorry If that does not fit your narrative .
 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by dilligaf

[John Wright]

11 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Literally sounds like you’re planning your own funeral and reducing it to just holidays is just trying to close down the debate. John is clearly not on a holiday in the conventional sense and what’s wrong with getting away from this mental situation and seeing a bit of the world. A holiday in this environment makes little sense but just pissing off from this total madness for 6 months or more is I’m sure attractive to many. 

I’m only away 7 weeks. I’m working every day using ipad or laptop on my office VPN. If I get any tribunal hearings I can chair remotely via Teams. If I get an ombudsman adjudication I can receive the documents in e-format and do it as I travel.

I get fatigued travelling. That explains the ferries, avoiding long drives. Great to travel as you sleep. I’m going at my own pace. 

I actually think Quayle & Co have done a good job. But I also think that putting a nation state, or a micro state, into total isolation, with no real exit plan, isn’t viable. I don’t discount the seriousness of Covid. I believe that the restrictions in most countries have kept infection and death low and avoided health service melt downs.

But I do think we’ve seen sections of the community panicked and not able to contemplate that Covid is just another risk in life where we take risks daily.

[thesultanofsheight]

35 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I actually think Quayle & Co have done a good job. But I also think that putting a nation state, or a micro state, into total isolation, with no real exit plan, isn’t viable. I don’t discount the seriousness of Covid. I believe that the restrictions in most countries have kept infection and death low and avoided health service melt downs.

But I do think we’ve seen sections of the community panicked and not able to contemplate that Covid is just another risk in life where we take risks daily.

1. You won’t find a post from me that says anything different on Quayle and Co - they did very well straight off but this focus on building a Covid free island bubble now is wrong and actually damaging from a psychological perspective. It’s also virtually impossible to sustain - so it’s an artificial environment. Like the UK were struggling with the exit plan communication now we’ve got ourselves in this position where people are irrationally fearful and psychologically damaged by the scare stories they’ve been told so far. I don’t blame IOM government for that as Manx Radio isn’t that good at propaganda and you get a sense anyway that Quayle and a few others don’t buy into it either but can’t ignore their medial advisers or guidance from UK government which has literally fucked up everything it’s touched since day one. But we can either sit here and watch the wheels further fall off our economy paralyzed by fear or have a clearer exit plan that is not held back by not wanting to upset some people who have irrational fears about better access to the outside world and what that involves. Upping the focus on testing across the board and track and trace has to be part of that plan to allow more mobility in a controlled way. 
 

2. Agree fully 

Edited September 6, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[Manx Bean]

7 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

1. You won’t find a post from me that says anything different on Quayle and Co - they did very well straight off but this focus on building a Covid free island bubble now is wrong and actually damaging from a psychological perspective. It’s also virtually impossible to sustain - so it’s an artificial environment. Like the UK were struggling with the exit plan communication now we’ve got ourselves in this position where people are irrationally fearful and psychologically damaged by the scare stories they’ve been told so far. I don’t blame IOM government for that as Manx Radio isn’t that good at propaganda and you get a sense anyway that Quayle and a few others don’t buy into it either but can’t ignore their medial advisers or guidance from UK government which has literally fucked up everything it’s touched since day one. But we can either sit here and watch the wheels further fall off our economy paralyzed by fear or have a clearer exit plan that is not held back by not wanting to upset some people who have irrational fears about better access to the outside world and what that involves. Upping the focus on testing across the board and track and trace has to be part of that plan to allow more mobility in a controlled way. 
 

2. Agree fully 

Well said.

Yesterday's dramatic Howard announcement just goes to underline that the policy now needs to be rapidly reviewed. The fact that it  had to be held at 10am on a Sunday finely illustrates two things - Howard loves creating a drama and its also trying to emphasise the Island's very badly out of control paranoia. Was it necessary? In my opinion, no. Apart from the drama, there was also the cost of putting it all on. Frankly, it could have waited until today.

But when you think through the subject matter, it was to say that a person who had been off island had travelled to the island, self isolated, been tested and was positive so was remaining in a further 14 days self isolation. However, the flip side of that is that it would appear that every other person on the flight was not considered to be a risk according to the contact and trace team. Stop there for a minute and pause. Ok, so this tells us that:

Of the several thousand residents that have gone away and then returned, or have repatriated one, ONE, ONE has tested positive.

So, therefore, if we combine that fact with what we are being told about the efficiency of the processes and procedures in place, why can we not now look at allowing in close family of residents on a controlled basis i.e. so many per day/week?

[thommo2010]

9 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Why not just wait a year. ? Was it so important to go away ? You are a mod and will no doubt ban me again for having the audacity to question you. But , whatever. We have missed out on 5 holidays this year, but are not complaining, having got most money refunded. You are high risk like I am, so why go to all the hassle and risk for a break in the sun ? We aren’t getting any younger, but we will still be here next year, I hope, so can maybe get a sunny break. You have shocked me TBH

To be fair is it against the law now to travel away? John's a grown adult if he wants to take that 'risk' that's his decision and has nothing to do with anyone else. I'm envious of him managing to get away. Hope he enjoyed it