IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, WTF said:

the big question for me at the moment is why,  if the posting that was made is assumed correct, medical staff at nobles that don't show symptoms aren't being tested even though it is known they have been in close proximity to people who have since shown symptoms and tested positive?  what is the incubation period ?   it comes across to me like we won't test everyone because we know the numbers will be up ,   firstly we don't want to admit that and secondly it would mean too many staff signed off and not enough troops left to deal with things.  

Staff at Nobles are being tested. Every patient who stays overnight or longer is tested. That is why the numbers awaiting testing and the numbers awaiting results never tally up. 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

1 minute ago, Cambon said:

Staff at Nobles are being tested. Every patient who stays overnight or longer is tested. That is why the numbers awaiting testing and the numbers awaiting results never tally up. 

It would be interesting to see a split of tests being undertaken now.  I wonder how many of the general public (who are not working at say the Hospital) are getting tested.  Looks to be very very low.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I pretty much agree with you that the UK's response has been poor - their testing capacity in particular (only a few weeks ago it was 5000 per day, equivalent to 6 here on a per capita basis, so essentially useless) has been inadequate.  The PPE situation has not been great, but that's more of a global issue and in some respects the UK have been amongst the last to be hit by this virus when suppliers worldwide were struggling.  You could of course argue, I'm sure you will, that they should have had warehouses full of it 'just in case', but that's a 20/20 hindsight thing again.  Their pronouncements have been simply awful - "think about perhaps not going to the pub" then "Don't go to the pub from tomorrow night - feel free to go out on an infection spreading bender tonight - it'll be your last chance for a while" - that sort of thing.

If you follow the chain of command upwards of any gov dept, let's take the NHS, at the penultimate level in this case you will find Matt Hancock. Above him, at the very top, you will find Boris Johnson. So the PM is ultimately responsible for the performance of the NHS and every other department. He wanted the job, well he got it....

The "warehouse of PPE" has nothing to do with hindsight. Or it shouldn't have. It was sort-of based on modelling. As we all know by now in 2016 they ran a pandemic simulation called Exercise Cygnus. The idea was to check preparedness. The results are no doubt classified. Which is fair enough. After all, in this day and age the last thing you want to do is tell the world how badly prepared you are for a biological attack. However it seems the exercise did flag up that there would quickly be a lack of PPE and ventilators. At that point Jeremy Hunt should have pushed for anything that might end up in short supply in a pandemic like ventilators, PPE, commonsense etc to be labelled "Strategic". This means, very sensibly, that the UK should not only have a stockpile but the means to manufacture replacements locally.

Maybe Hunt let it drift. Maybe the Treasury wouldn't pay up. Maybe the decision was made in Cabinet in line with "austerity" to do the minimum. We might find out in 2066. But then again, maybe we won't.

Anyway this, apparently, is the reality of the PPE "stockpile":

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-ppe-stockpile-was-out-of-date-when-coronavirus-hit-uk?fbclid=IwAR1cLc-dvuExCd2ENJDFjzKJXr3l2umDTR6zXPjb5-LzWCPuS8VsfG9oe8M

Around 200 million vital pieces of kit – including respirators, masks, syringes and needles – had all expired in the eight months before 30 January 2020.

This included 20.9 million out-of-date respirators, from a total of 26.3 million. The tightly-fitting mouth masks are vital for filtering the air that NHS workers breathe.

The documents also reveal that more than half of the national stockpile of surgical facemasks had also expired.

In total, 45% of the 19,909 boxes holding PPE supplies had exceeded their use-by dates.

[Kopek]

But,.....doesn't that indicate that stockpiling doesn't work?

If we heard that millions of NHS supplies had been dumped as out of date, wouldn't we be a bit miffed at that?

I suppose that Countries, UK, US and EU could have ensured that the manufacturers remained in a financially secure condition to up their production very quickly?

Edited May 11, 2020 by Kopek

[WTF]

44 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

You've said that we dont want to test people as the numbers would be up.  So you are implying that the numbers being better are more important so they dont test.

That is just stupid and delusional.  It's concerning that someone could actually think that they avoid testing people at the hospital etc.  On purpose.   You are genuinely detached from reality.

i'm still waiting for where i said it was a win,?  manipulating data isn't a win, nor is not wanting to collect it.  if the hospital has staff that feel unsure as to their own welfare they need to have their fears and concerns  confirmed or allayed and not be left in limbo worrying about it.  

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

1 minute ago, WTF said:

i'm still waiting for where i said it was a win,?  manipulating data isn't a win, nor is not wanting to collect it.  if the hospital has staff that feel unsure as to their own welfare they need to have their fears and concerns  confirmed or allayed and not be left in limbo worrying about it.  

They are being tested.

You're implying it is a statistics win by avoiding testing.

[P.K.]

11 minutes ago, Kopek said:

But,.....doesn't that indicate that stockpiling doesn't work?

If we heard that millions of NHS supplies had been dumped as out of date, wouldn't we be a bit miffed at that?

I suppose that Countries, UK, US and EU could have ensured that the manufacturers remained in a financially secure condition to up their production very quickly?

Stockpiling works.

And if it has a shelf life, like PPE, it needs to be managed. Which, lets face it, it not exactly an onerous task...

[WTF]

13 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

They are being tested.

You're implying it is a statistics win by avoiding testing.

only some are being tested otherwise there wouldn't have been a nurse saying they were refused a test because they had no symptoms. so that's one test avoided so one possible possitive result not on the list.  if we stopped testing there would be no new cases similar to how the first case didn't exist according to flapping howard because we hadn't had it confirmed even though it was all over social media.  it's like Schrödinger's cat

Edited May 11, 2020 by WTF

[Manximus Aururaneus]

35 minutes ago, P.K. said:

If you follow the chain of command upwards of any gov dept, let's take the NHS, at the penultimate level in this case you will find Matt Hancock. Above him, at the very top, you will find Boris Johnson. So the PM is ultimately responsible for the performance of the NHS and every other department. He wanted the job, well he got it....

 

 

Call me old-fashioned but you don't sack a boss just because something goes wrong. You sack them if they are unwilling or incapable of sorting it out.

Apparently MOD procurement was already pretty high up on Dominic Cummings' to-do list (Good!) - I have a feeling that NHS procurement is about to be added.

[Kopek]

True. It should have been rotated rather than sit in a warehouse as 'stockpile'? Tho, is that as convenient as having it delivered to your door, or in the UK, many doors?

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Stockpiling works.

And if it has a shelf life, like PPE, it needs to be managed. Which, lets face it, it not exactly an onerous task...

Dunno bout that. Loo paper? When my gran died I found a can of American wartime bacon at the back of the cupboard. Food parcel stuff. By then it was 50 years old. Fried nicely. Tasted good. The lard that it was preserved in was great for roasties.

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

Dunno bout that. Loo paper? When my gran died I found a can of American wartime bacon at the back of the cupboard. Food parcel stuff. By then it was 50 years old. Fried nicely. Tasted good. The lard that it was preserved in was great for roasties.

Compo lasts and lasts.

[P.K.]

3 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Call me old-fashioned but you don't sack a boss just because something goes wrong. You sack them if they are unwilling or incapable of sorting it out.

Apparently MOD procurement was already pretty high up on Dominic Cummings' to-do list (Good!) - I have a feeling that NHS procurement is about to be added.

Call me old-fashioned but if you're the boss there's nobody to sack you.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

3 minutes ago, WTF said:

only some are being tested otherwise there wouldn't have been a nurse saying they were refused a test because they had no symptoms. so that's one test avoided so one possible possitive result not on the list.  if we stopped testing there would be no new cases similar to how the first case didn't exist according to flapping howard because we hadn't had it confirmed even though it was all over social media.

That's just bullshit really.  People are being tested.  Tests are not being avoided to alter statistics.  It just simply makes no sense and  only a clown would think otherwise.

[WTF]

4 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

That's just bullshit really.  People are being tested.  Tests are not being avoided to alter statistics.  It just simply makes no sense and  only a clown would think otherwise.

so test everyone and see where we really stand. some people being tested doesn't cover it.   if you don't ask the question you can't get an answer you didn't want.

Edited May 11, 2020 by WTF