IOM Covid removing restrictions

[A fool and his money.....]

10 minutes ago, wrighty said:

It’s a valid question. I think being vaxxed after being infected will act like an immune boost, so it’s not an unreasonable thing to do. But I also think that rules stating you need to be vaccinated to work somewhere could be extended to say ‘vaccinated or recovered from proven infection’. 
 

In my own case, I was fully vaxxed in January last year, boosted September, had covid last week.  I don’t see there’s much need for me to have any more vaccines, unless we end up like flu with annual boosters against likely variants. Even then it’s probably unnecessary for me. 

Do you think, from the point of view of immunity, it is better to be vaxxed then infected than infected then vaxxed, or does it make no difference?

I appreciate we have little choice either decisions.

[747-400]

1 hour ago, hissingsid said:

Figures down dramatically today….wonder what tomorrow and Tuesday will bring 😙

Have you told Ramseyboi 😎😎😎

[Johnny F]

4 hours ago, wrighty said:

I’ve thought from the start that the best immunity will be from a vaccine (giving a limited response, but stopping you dying) followed by an infection (to broaden the response and generate immune memory). That’s where many of us are right now. 

My own case bears out your theory perfectly, I was fully vaxxed in June, boosted in December but I caught it 9 days ago. If I'm totally honest this covid has been like the weakest cold I've ever had and I put that success down to the vaccine. I'm mid fifties not exactly fit but no underlying health conditions either and I'm absolutely fine. I have two close work colleagues (both same age and health profile) 1 unvaxed who ended up on a ventilator and has ongoing care at home  and the other double vaxxed in June who was "quite ill" but returned to work after 10 days. 3 men same age, same health condition different outcomes. Its a very small sample but when you see it on your own doorstep so clearly demonstrated it really makes you sit up and think

[hissingsid]

Although tomorrow is D day regarding the 300 smackers the forms will be online for applications from the 15th then it will be a case of wait and hope.

[Happier diner]

10 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Do you think, from the point of view of immunity, it is better to be vaxxed then infected than infected then vaxxed, or does it make no difference?

I appreciate we have little choice either decisions.

I imagine that this science is still emerging.

[Banker]

A few, the usual ones, complaining that the word endemic is being used not pandemic & praising Scotland hr minister for taking string restrictions!

Also someone wanting to know why we’re not testing waste water to check infection numbers 

[code99]

Time will tell, but in the interests of impartiality, it is also fair to acknowledge that not everybody in the scientific/medical community agrees with Dr Dix’s idea of ‘ending mass jabs and living with Covid’.

Omicron may be the last Covid mutation, in may be ‘just like the flu’ for most victims, it may also massively boost immunity, or it may simply be that the once hallowed chant of ‘test, test, test’ turns out to be financially unviable. Dr Dix could be right about all of these things, and it is also quite possible that his idea will be proven to be correct. I am however just wondering if some of his comments (e.g.  Dr Dix said ” the government should support research and analysis how effective vaccines had been at producing memory B- and T-cell immunity…”) may have something to do with the executive roles that he has held in a bevy of pharmaceutical companies:

“Dr Clive Dix was CEO and co-founder of PowderMed Limited, which was sold to Pfizer Inc. in 2006 and CEO and co-founder of Convergence Pharmaceuticals Limited, which was sold to Biogen Inc. in 2015. Other previous roles include: Senior Vice President of research and development at PowderJect Pharmaceuticals plc sold to Chiron in 2003, Chairman of the UK BioIndustry Association, Chairman of Crescendo Biologicals Limited and Chairman of Auralis Limited (acquired by ViroPharma Inc). Following post-doctoral roles and a period at Ciba-Geigy AG (now Novartis AG), Dr Dix joined GlaxoWellcome plc where he became UK Research Director. Dr Dix is currently Executive Chairman of C4X Discovery plc, Chairman of Touchlight Genetics Limited, Centauri Therapeutics LTD and Calchan Ltd”.

Meanwhile, in the until-recently-hermit-kingdom (aka Australia) they seem to have decided to ‘let it (Covid) rip’ - at least in the state of NSW where they have just recorded their deadliest day yet since the start of the pandemic whilst achieving 92.8% double dose vaccination. This decision was branded ‘reckless’ by Trade Unions as they expressed their anger that ‘’workers are being thrown to the wolves’’. It is therefore interesting how the ‘haves’ and the ‘have-nots’ are viewing the way forward to manage Covid very differently.

Edited January 9, 2022 by code99
typo

[wrighty]

25 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Do you think, from the point of view of immunity, it is better to be vaxxed then infected than infected then vaxxed, or does it make no difference?

I appreciate we have little choice either decisions.

I think vaxxed then infected is better. That way, your boosted immune response (from the second hit) will be broader. It’s also safer that way. 

[quilp]

What is it then? Balance? 

[Roger Mexico]

41 minutes ago, WTF said:

so if you have had covid whilst unvaccinated , is there any point at all to being vaccinated after the fact ? 

Yes a quick Google will show numerous articles showing that it is far better to be vaccinated and that infection provides less protection.  Here's a summary graphic from the British Society for Immunology for instance:

Here's an article on an ONS study which compared the two, though the beneficial effect of previous infection may be over-estimated[1].  Here's an American article that says:

Here’s a common question people have been asking: if you contract COVID-19, is it really necessary to get vaccinated? Isn’t the protection you have after infection enough? And the answer—to sum it up simply—is no.

This isn't to say that prior infection doesn't give you some protection (it does) and all all these are pre-Omicron[2] which has been shown to infect both vaccinated and previously infected to higher levels than before.  Both though are still providing a lot of protection against serious symptoms, hospitalisation etc.  Though so far comparison between the UK and US (which has lower vaccination levels) suggests that vaccination is the more effective of the two.

 

[1]  Because it's easy to tell if someone has been vaccinated, but not if they had previously had Covid unless they got tested.  So those unvaccinated who previously had Covid with no/mild symptoms will have been included in the 'reference group' (with a higher likelihood of catching Covid) rather than the 'previously positive' group.

[2]  But then so are most things.  It's only two months today that the first identified sample was taken, never mind identified.

[TheTeapot]

I mean, he's correct, endemic doesn't mean milder, in the same way banana doesn't mean table, you can check in a dictionary.

But then what do I know about language, apparently a mass booster campaign of 20000 vaccinations here or 15million in the UK in December is 'doing nothing'

Edited January 9, 2022 by TheTeapot

[Banker]

11 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

You’ll love the irony of this Tweet.

Here’s another one from his Twitter mate Mary Brew to John Wardle 

I have never seen anything like this present Government. Now trying to stop us being informed on anything to do with Covid. Very worrying. Have asked if Tim Glover can ask a Q re our waste water, r we testing, if so how many infections per pop as per daily figs. If not, why not.

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, Banker said:

Here’s another one from his Twitter mate Mary Brew to John Wardle 

I have never seen anything like this present Government. Now trying to stop us being informed on anything to do with Covid. Very worrying. Have asked if Tim Glover can ask a Q re our waste water, r we testing, if so how many infections per pop as per daily figs. If not, why not.

Nah, she would shout "I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT..."

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

Time will tell, but in the interests of impartiality, it is also fair to acknowledge that not everybody in the scientific/medical community agrees with Dr Dix’s idea of ‘ending mass jabs and living with Covid’.

Of course that might actually include Dr Dix.  As usual you need to ignore the headline and read to the end of the article.  At the top it may say:

End mass jabs and live with Covid, says ex-head of vaccine taskforce

But read down to paragraph 18 and it turns out:

[Dix] said he supported the current booster campaign, but a “new targeted strategy” was needed to get the UK to a position of “managing Covid”. He added: “We should consider when we stop testing and let individuals isolate when they are not well and return to work when they feel ready, in the same way we do in a bad influenza season.”

So he's not calling on testing to stop now or no more vaccinations, despite what the Guardian claims earlier in the story.

As it happens I think he's talking nonsense here anyway.  Given that "managing Covid" has been the policy for the last two years[1], it's rather odd to call for it now.    And of course in a bad flu year you do test people, tell those infected to stay off work and use regular vaccination - which is why bad flu years are rarer.

As with a lot of people he's just saying words without thinking what they mean because a lot of other people are saying them.

 

[1]  There's an interesting counter-factual here.  What if western countries had gone all out with an attempt to eliminate SARS-CoV-2 in the same way that they did in 2003 with its close relation SARS-CoV-1, rather than telling themselves it wasn't really serious?  Because the latter strategy hasn't worked that well has it?

[Gladys]

Managing Covid may have been the mantra,  but I think the reality is that it has been managing us.