John Wright Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, Happier diner said: That is because we probably have the same proportion of vaccinated to unvaccinated. So I agree, but get your facts right IMO You haven’t looked at the dashboard recently. And depends where you’re coming from. Get your facts right Travelled from Spain to Bulgaria this morning. Airline checked Covid pass and PCR before loading. Public health at Sofia airport checked again. Some random testing. One girl turned away told she’d be put on the next plane back. Not sure why. double vax here is still less than 30% and they’ve had Vax cert policy in place since 21 October. But you can upload a LTF result and use that for 48 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, John Wright said: You haven’t looked at the dashboard recently. And depends where you’re coming from. Get your facts right Travelled from Spain to Bulgaria this morning. Airline checked Covid pass and PCR before loading. Public health at Sofia airport checked again. Some random testing. One girl turned away told she’d be put on the next plane back. Not sure why. double vax here is still less than 30% and they’ve had Vax cert policy in place since 21 October. But you can upload a LTF result and use that for 48 hours. Sorry John. I'm not sure what you are saying. All I am saying that vaccinated people are considered less likely to transmit covid. I was referring to UK proportion. Edited January 16, 2022 by Happier diner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) The only even close to justifiable argument for countries having a vaccination entry policy is that people travelling in to the country are much less likely to end up in hospital with that single illness. Whether that is a strong enough reason is debatable, and up to the individual countries. All other arguments don't get close to being strong enough in my view. Transmission is rampant regardless of what policy is in place. You can't stop it without dreadfully strong restrictions, and none of those are desirable or necessary. Edited January 16, 2022 by TheTeapot 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Sorry John. I'm not sure what you are saying. All I am saying that vaccinated people are considered less likely to transmit covid. I was referring to UK proportion. That's just not the case. It was assumed to be the case at the start but we now know the vaccine functions more as a therapeutic, of sorts, and doesn't have any significant effect on transmissibility. Therefore any further border restrictions are solely for political means rather than as a health measure. Edited January 16, 2022 by Danoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Danoo said: That's just not the case. It was assumed to be the case at the start but we now know the vaccine functions more as a therapeutic, of sorts, and doesn't have any significant effect on transmissibility. Therefore any further border restrictions are solely for political means rather than as a health measure. Well unless you tell me you are a professor of virology I am going to disagree. Listened to PROF Chris Smith on Radio 5 on Friday and he gave an excellent description. Others don't agree with you either. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/12/vaccinated-who-get-breakthrough-infections-less-contagious/ Do you have any references for your view? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Well unless you tell me you are a professor of virology I am going to disagree. Listened to PROF Chris Smith on Radio 5 on Friday and he gave an excellent description. Others don't agree with you either. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/12/vaccinated-who-get-breakthrough-infections-less-contagious/ Do you have any references for your view? It is being discussed more and more and studies are being done which suggest we may have been over optimistic in our thinking about transmission. I am out and about at the moment but I read the following Lancet contribution this morning by an infectious disease professional and the studies and evidence it refers to are all linked. I'll have a further read when I get home later and see if I can dig out some more on this. Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals - The Lancet Infectious Diseases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, Danoo said: It is being discussed more and more and studies are being done which suggest we may have been over optimistic in our thinking about transmission. I am out and about at the moment but I read the following Lancet contribution this morning by an infectious disease professional and the studies and evidence it refers to are all linked. I'll have a further read when I get home later and see if I can dig out some more on this. Transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 among fully vaccinated individuals - The Lancet Infectious Diseases Thank you for that. Its interesting and may end up being true. I think though that it certainly seems that the weight of view at the moment is that vaccinated persons are less likely to be infectious. I'm a scientist but not a virologist (not by a good way) but to me the current view seems to stack up as being more understandable. Ill admit that's a gut feeling based on the basic principles. But who knows. Even those at the sharp end of academia and research are still learning new things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Danoo said: That's just not the case. It was assumed to be the case at the start but we now know the vaccine functions more as a therapeutic, of sorts, and doesn't have any significant effect on transmissibility. Therefore any further border restrictions are solely for political means rather than as a health measure. It's more complicated than that. The problem is that that 'transmissibility' means two things. The first is the likelihood of someone who has a disease passing it on to someone who hasn't. With early variants of Covid, vaccination did make a difference, but it seems less so with more recent ones (I haven't seen very recent research). But there's also what you might call community transmissibility and that is affected not just by the above, but also by the likelihood of someone catching it in the first place. (Obviously you can't pass it on if you don't have it in the first place). And it looks as if vaccination does still protect you to some extent, even with Omicron. And that applies particularly if you have been boosted. The latest Variants of Concern Report published on Friday has the following graphic: This is for two doses of AZ plus Pfizer/Moderna booster (or not) which I've used as probably the most common combination on the Island, though graphs for other combinations are in the Report as well. Protection against catching Omicron is clearly less in all circumstances, but it's not zero unless who haven't had your booster and your second dose was over six months ago. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Danoo said: That's just not the case. It was assumed to be the case at the start but we now know the vaccine functions more as a therapeutic, of sorts, and doesn't have any significant effect on transmissibility. Therefore any further border restrictions are solely for political means rather than as a health measure. Well it serves to increase vaccinations, hopefully Djokovic will agree now 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Allison on the news at 9:00 and 10:00 am this morning, talking about Liverpool landing stage. Said he hoped it would be ready for the TT relaunch in 2023! Mistake or cat out of the bag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: I heard that too. Its obvious what was going on around the TT. You are inferring that there is a plan? A secret plan? Perhaps you give him too much credit😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Happier diner said: You are inferring that there is a plan? A secret plan? Perhaps you give him too much credit😅 Generally my thoughts when it comes to conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said: I’d suggest he defaulted to internal department talk. They are probably referring to a 2023 “re-launch” internally and it’s just slipped out matter of factly. Yes that's plausible. They will try to get through 2022 unscathed and then no doubt lots of pointless innovations will produced for 2023 as a way of 'freshening up their customer offer' or whatever gobbledegook they want to use. Most of what DfE do is about justifying the jobs of those employed rather than actually achieving anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 58 minutes ago, Happier diner said: You are inferring that there is a plan? A secret plan? Perhaps you give him too much credit😅 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Most of what DfE do is about justifying the jobs of those employed rather than actually achieving anything. That's not confined to just DfE. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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