Gladys Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, finlo said: They've had that fear drilled into them! Yes, but attacking the fear is not going to remove it, gentle reassurance and understanding will. If, as a child, you were frightened of water, which way would you go? Would it be to the person shouting at you to get your arse in the water, or the person smiling and telling you to 'come on in, it's fine and you can hold on to me until you feel safe'? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Gladys said: Yes, but attacking the fear is not going to remove it, gentle reassurance and understanding will. If, as a child, you were frightened of water, which way would you go? Would it be to the person shouting at you to get your arse in the water, or the person smiling and telling you to 'come on in, it's fine and you can hold on to me until you feel safe'? I get what you're saying but there's millions world wide who have been needlessly brainwashed with fear most now irreparably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I genuinely do feel for those who are truly fearful and aren't just acting up to score political points of further their own agenda. But we are approaching a tipping point now where society has to return back to some semblance of normality and sadly it's up to those who are scared to adapt to society, not for society to totally bend over for them. My question for a few months has been how did these people get around before the pandemic? What precautions did they take against influenza and winter vomiting bug? Both of those can be equally as dangerous as covid to someone who is immunocomprimised. Let's not forget the flu is a serious condition in it's true form. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 21, 2022 by 0bserver Dupe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 21, 2022 by 0bserver Dupe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, 0bserver said: I genuinely do feel for those who are truly fearful and aren't just acting up to score political points of further their own agenda. But we are approaching a tipping point now where society has to return back to some semblance of normality and sadly it's up to those who are scared to adapt to society, not for society to totally bend over for them. My question for a few months has been how did these people get around before the pandemic? What precautions did they take against influenza and winter vomiting bug? Both of those can be equally as dangerous as covid to someone who is immunocomprimised. Let's not forget the flu is a serious condition in it's true form. Nobody was putting the fear to christ in them about those though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, 0bserver said: I genuinely do feel for those who are truly fearful and aren't just acting up to score political points of further their own agenda. But we are approaching a tipping point now where society has to return back to some semblance of normality and sadly it's up to those who are scared to adapt to society, not for society to totally bend over for them. My question for a few months has been how did these people get around before the pandemic? What precautions did they take against influenza and winter vomiting bug? Both of those can be equally as dangerous as covid to someone who is immunocomprimised. Let's not forget the flu is a serious condition in it's true form. Your first point is true, but your second point is irrelevant really. Who knows, and really who cares? Is it really relevant to what is done? It is up to governments now to start educating, gently, everyone. Mind you having seen their performance on AIDS, don't hold your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Gladys said: Just a thought. People are not fearful because they are loonies, or self-indulgent, they are fearful because they are. And of course they often have reason to be fearful - or at least apprehensive - as your friend clearly has. Most people who are vulnerable know they are and will take appropriate action after considering the risks. And of course those risks may be increased by the actions of others over whom they have no control. One thing that has constantly happened throughout the last two years is Covid-minimisers demanding that people be allowed to make their own decisions - and then complaining bitterly when they do just that and come to a different decision (for themselves) than the minimisers advocate. As you say, just denouncing them as scaredy-cats is not going to change their minds. Similarly the vulnerable, and certainly the most aware of them, will want to base their decisions on their behaviour on facts, so they can assess the likelihood that engaging in certain situations will have on their health. The more information, the more confident they will feel. So claiming that stopping testing, stopping publishing data on testing, hospitalisations and deaths and so on will reassure them is unlikely to be successful. In contrast, as always, rumour will step in to fill the newly created void and that will likely be more exaggerated than reality. Just saying "Don't worry your pretty little head - everything will be fine!" never convinced anyone. The same problem applies to those who claim we should prioritise the economy above all else. You can't make people go out and spend and making things appear less safe for the vulnerable may actually discourage that. These aren't new things to say. They've been said and proved true constantly through the pandemic. And yet people keep repeating the same old tropes, presumably because they keep on seeing them in the papers - and the British media has a much greater preference for opinion over facts and assertion over analysis. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Gladys said: Your first point is true, but your second point is irrelevant really. Who knows, and really who cares? Is it really relevant to what is done? It is up to governments now to start educating, gently, everyone. Mind you having seen their performance on AIDS, don't hold your breath. It's relevant to the point that It's not an entirely new situation to have a virus transmitting through the population. So perhaps whatever they used to do is what they need to do again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Roger mentions 'the minimisers' there. Sunetra Gupta, a professor of epidemiology at Oxford would fit that bill, and she was one of a group who were very wrong earlier on in the pandemic. Many of those 'minimisers' made some pretty serious errors back then and had we followed what they were saying prevaccination the death toll would have been far far worse. But vaccination - filling the immunity deficit you have because you didn't get this virus when you were a kid - has changed the landscape, and some of what the 'minimisers' were saying then is now true. I don't agree with all of her latest article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/20/time-end-self-isolation/ (turn javascript off to avoid the paywall) but I agree with this for sure 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: (turn javascript off to avoid the paywall) https://12ft.io/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Or use that yeah. Or search it on archive.org. There's always a way. For me though its three clicks on ublock to bring it up without the paywall so thats super easy.# Edit - I do struggle to get round the paywall to The Athletic if anyone knows... Edited January 21, 2022 by TheTeapot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 12 hours ago, 0bserver said: The mandatory vaccinations won't change. It's part of the managed collapse of the NHS to push UK healthcare into the hands of tory donors private providers. But you're right, a great opportunity for Manx Care. It is likely to be delayed or even revoked. Reported by the "i" tomorrow front page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 13 hours ago, Gladys said: He really is a highly intelligent, educated and qualified man The world's governments are supposedly crammed to the rafters with similar individuals but it didn't prevent the global-wide hysteria that overtook otherwise sane and rational people diving headlong into blind panic. If he does have the qualities you describe he should conclude that his attitude is irrational - and sad for both him and his wife to continue their days in misplaced fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Gladys said: Yes, but attacking the fear is not going to remove it, gentle reassurance and understanding will. If, as a child, you were frightened of water, which way would you go? Would it be to the person shouting at you to get your arse in the water, or the person smiling and telling you to 'come on in, it's fine and you can hold on to me until you feel safe'? But overcome the fear of water they must, once you strip away the irrationality of their hesitancy. Ironically it's the highly educated elders who are now the most hesitant about embracing life again. I see it daily. The pendulum has swung so far the other way that their ego cannot comprehend the fact that they might not be thinking rationally anymore, after a lifetime of a career and social standing being built on them being on a peceived higher intellectual plane. They have bought the propaganda by scientists they see at their level, dismissing contrasting opinions from other esteemed scientists because it's not the establishment view. It's much easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled, as the phrase goes. (Not that these people have been necessarily fooled but you hopefully get the point). Edited January 22, 2022 by Danoo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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