IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

18 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Would you prefer that the cases turned into deaths before any action taken?

The majority of positives have not turned to cases, far less deaths. 

[dilligaf]

Your assumption that more deaths are caused by Covid, than because of it. Mental. You are above that stupid thought process

[thesultanofsheight]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

The majority of positives have not turned to cases, far less deaths. 

It’s next to impossible to push against the general lunacy of this forum. I’d give up. It’s not worth it. All questions answered above yet still no replies of substance except aggravated trolling.  

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, dilligaf said:

Your assumption that more deaths are caused by Covid, than because of it. Mental. You are above that stupid thought process

I said it is highly likely that that will be the outcome.  The non-availability of treatment  plus the unwillingness to put yourself 'in danger' by going to hospital, plus suicides, domestic violence, poverty, etc. 

Did you watch the link Thommo posted about the dry tinder effect and how excess deaths are reducing?  Or have you considered how positives are being turned into cases whereas the usual medical definition of a case is suffering symptoms?  There are reports that the death rate from your common or garden seasonal flu or pneumonia currently outstrip those from Covid.

I have no doubt that it is a terrible illness that can cause death in the vulnerable, but so does a great many other things that we live with day to day and they can and do affect everyone.

[Gladys]

13 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It’s next to impossible to push against the general lunacy of this forum. I’d give up. It’s not worth it. All questions answered above yet still no replies of substance except aggravated trolling.  

Sadly, the lunacy is not just here.  People have been scared into unquestioning compliance, which at the outset was probably the right course.  But, governments, not necessarily  IOMG who can only to drift with the general tide, need to start addressing the counter information with a firm and reasoned rebuttal or by educating the population on the real risk now that more information is available.  

[thesultanofsheight]

2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Sadly, the lunacy is not just here.  People have been scared into unquestioning compliance, which at the outset was probably the right course.  But, governments, not necessarily  IOMG who can only to drift with the general tide, need to start addressing the counter information with a firm and reasoned rebuttal or by educating the population on the real risk now that more information is available.  

I completely agree. It’s amazing how compliant MF has become in the wake of all this. So many posters on here seem to just be laying low accepting any old drivel they’re fed about their chances of dying in the next six months. 

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

I said it is highly likely that that will be the outcome.  The non-availability of treatment  plus the unwillingness to put yourself 'in danger' by going to hospital, plus suicides, domestic violence, poverty, etc. 

Did you watch the link Thommo posted about the dry tinder effect and how excess deaths are reducing?  Or have you considered how positives are being turned into cases whereas the usual medical definition of a case is suffering symptoms?  There are reports that the death rate from your common or garden seasonal flu or pneumonia currently outstrip those from Covid.

I have no doubt that it is a terrible illness that can cause death in the vulnerable, but so does a great many other things that we live with day to day and they can and do affect everyone.

It doesn't help that the very stupid UK excuse for a government are deliberately trying to skew the figures so they look less incompetent than they actually are.

The wizard wheeze is that if you go down with Covid-19 you get tested on entry to hospital (SOP) and the ICU Team put in heroic efforts and despite the appalling virus they manage to keep you alive for more than four weeks before you expire then you didn't die of Covid-19.

I wonder what lies they're having to put on the Death Certificate...?

[Banker]

5 hours ago, P.K. said:

It doesn't help that the very stupid UK excuse for a government are deliberately trying to skew the figures so they look less incompetent than they actually are.

The wizard wheeze is that if you go down with Covid-19 you get tested on entry to hospital (SOP) and the ICU Team put in heroic efforts and despite the appalling virus they manage to keep you alive for more than four weeks before you expire then you didn't die of Covid-19.

I wonder what lies they're having to put on the Death Certificate...?

I think that if Covid only cause then it counts, it’s where someone had it, then recovered and died of say cancer 2 months later it doesn’t count.

a number of those dead with cause if Covid  did have very serious health conditions like cancer and would have sadly died anyway 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Banker

[thommo2010]

In terms of the iom I've asked this to a couple of mhks but had no reply, what if the uk dont get a grip of cases and theres never a vaccine? Is there another long term plan.

As a society we seem to have forgotten that people get sick. There were I think 5 covid hospitals built in the uk at great expense and havent been touched yet. 

Living in a bubble having to quarantine anytime you leave the island isnt a long term solution

[Beelzebub3]

14 hours ago, pongo said:

The people who keep proposing this approach refuse to answer that question.

Let's just say for instance, they let relatives from England return to home to see family 2 parents 2 kids, who benefits? IOMSP £400 return (not sure about your family my lot eat out and like a drink) 14 days @ £100 per day  at least, gifts to take back kippers /queenies etc  £100,  always a trip to Tynwald mills shirts? trousers etc £300 now how many families would visit if the borders were relaxed? I know in my circles there are quite a few waiting for the drawbridge to be lowered! mind you we are family orientated so perhaps a bit biased and selfish for some folk on here!

[Beelzebub3]

10 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Seen mine three times in about 6 weeks no problem. Maybe depend on how serious the issue is 

You clearly don't live on the west of the Island.

[Out of the blue]

9 hours ago, Gladys said:

Sadly, the lunacy is not just here.  People have been scared into unquestioning compliance, which at the outset was probably the right course.  But, governments, not necessarily  IOMG who can only to drift with the general tide, need to start addressing the counter information with a firm and reasoned rebuttal or by educating the population on the real risk now that more information is available.  

You have hit upon the real issue, and it is not something that either the less risk averse members of the Manx public or IOMG can influence. We realistically have to wait for HMG and the national media to get a grip. We can only inflence our local environment and hope that we continue to live in relative normality until the madness passes.

[Neil Down]

9 hours ago, Gladys said:

The majority of positives have not turned to cases, far less deaths. 

So IOM government damned if they do, damned (by a few on here) if they don't.

[Flyingfemme]

In August the UK counted 43,000 covid deaths. This week the government statistics list 29,000 total to date. You can no longer see, at a glance, how many deaths by day (that is in graphical form) but must add up the analysis by age group, or trust. More people are currently dying of flu than covid but we see no panic or instructions to mitigate that infection.........oh wait, the instructions would be the same........yet still the bug gets around. As it always has.

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket and I worry for the consequences for everyone. People routinely live long beyond their “natural” lifespan and we are unwilling to let them go. This is expensive and the money is running out. Would you be happy to be pauperised to “protect” those with little prospect of any life quality and no way out of “care” once they are in. It’s not a life I choose for myself and I know many share that view.

Governments are damned if they do and damned if they don’t but it’s time for hard choices. People must be told the costs in terms they can understand and we must all come to terms with death. Nobody gets out alive.

[Out of the blue]

11 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

So IOM government damned if they do, damned (by a few on here) if they don't.

The IOMG are doing a reasonable job in a difficult position, especially given they are having to coexist with the chaotic UK. It would perhaps be helpful however if they aligned the definition of ‘cases’ to the medically accepted definition i.e. those showing clinical symptoms, and also if they were to adjust their strategy to correlate directly to hospital capacity. As it stands, 20 non symptomatic cases over a defined period puts us into lockdown. If they have good reason to apply their current definitions and stratgegy, maybe they should clearly explain their reasoning, accomompanied by the data and advice used to make such decisions. I do not consider it unreasonable to have complete transparency when faced with such a potential loss of liberty.