IOM Covid removing restrictions

[AcousticallyChallenged]

27 minutes ago, Cambon said:

You may think so, but it really is not. The truth is coming out, slowly. But it is. We all fell for it. We were told it was the potential end of mankind. We were told we cannot even be with our dying loved ones, or attend their funerals. We were bullied into have the vaccinations. Anything other than what the Governments wanted us to believe was seen as conspiracy! It still is, but slowly the truth is coming out! 
 

 

How is old Vlad doing?

[AcousticallyChallenged]

14 minutes ago, NoTail said:

I don't really follow this thread. Can't really be arsed. Just had a peep.

Are there really people out there who think the whole covid thing was a hoax. And that the vaccines are some evil conspiracy.

Depending on who you ask it’s one of all sorts of things:

Poison, graphene, microchips, sterilisation, control, untested, dangerous, carcinogenic, causes heart attacks and blood clots, and one of the best claims is that it causes prion diseases (like Mad Cow).

Some also claim it steals your soul in the process (the blue shirted fella has said that one before), though he also claims viruses don’t exist at all. 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Cambon said:

You may think so, but it really is not. The truth is coming out, slowly. But it is. We all fell for it. We were told it was the potential end of mankind. We were told we cannot even be with our dying loved ones, or attend their funerals. We were bullied into have the vaccinations. Anything other than what the Governments wanted us to believe was seen as conspiracy! It still is, but slowly the truth is coming out! 
 

 

No one “ bullied” me into having the vaccinations. I took them of my own free will and having had them have not died from Covid, as many not having the vaccination have.

That may be coincidence but it’s a pretty big coincidence.

What is this truth that is coming out?

Why would Governments across the world ( of all political hues) want to lie to their populace about the threat to their health?

Of course the reaction with hindsight wasn’t perfect but many hundreds  of thousands of lives ( and probably more) were saved with vaccinations, social distancing and other policies.

I am not normally given to personal insults on here. But you come across as some sort of idiot.

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[Cambon]

39 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No one “ bullied” me into having the vaccinations. I took them of my own free will and having had them have not died from Covid, as many not having the vaccination have.

That may be coincidence but it’s a pretty big coincidence.

What is this truth that is coming out?

Why would Governments across the world ( of all political hues) want to lie to their populace about the threat to their health?

Of course the reaction with hindsight wasn’t perfect but many hundreds  of thousands of lives ( and probably more) were saved with vaccinations, social distancing and other policies.

I am not normally given to personal insults on here. But you come across as some sort of idiot.

 

Idiot? Really? 
Right! How much has this covid debacle cost “the world” ?

Trillions! 
money spent on vaccines we have been told for decades are impossible. 
why would governments lie…… ?    When do they ever tell the truth? 

I never thought like this at the start, but I am now very suspicious about the motives of the Covid movement. From the start, I was in the protect the vulnerable and let’s get on with it camp, over in six to eight months, before Christmas. 
 

Once we were locked down, my thinking changed. I was pro (for us) the total isolation and freedom we had. The thought that vaccination could free us. All that was possible.
 

However, as time passes, as politicians speak out, as the reality starts to kick in, we have all been screwed over in the biggest possible way. Far bigger than anything else imaginable. The possible repercussions are very scary. Those people who do not see it are scarier still! 

[Gladys]

29 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Idiot? Really? 
Right! How much has this covid debacle cost “the world” ?

Trillions! 
money spent on vaccines we have been told for decades are impossible. 
why would governments lie…… ?    When do they ever tell the truth? 

I never thought like this at the start, but I am now very suspicious about the motives of the Covid movement. From the start, I was in the protect the vulnerable and let’s get on with it camp, over in six to eight months, before Christmas. 
 

Once we were locked down, my thinking changed. I was pro (for us) the total isolation and freedom we had. The thought that vaccination could free us. All that was possible.
 

However, as time passes, as politicians speak out, as the reality starts to kick in, we have all been screwed over in the biggest possible way. Far bigger than anything else imaginable. The possible repercussions are very scary. Those people who do not see it are scarier still! 

Not sure that there was bad intent, just unpreparedness and concern at how the virus would actually play out and the responsibility to protect everyone. No politician anywhere would want to be accused of not doing enough or doing something too late. 

We can look back and analyse, but no one knew if this was going to be a true plague wiping out the population.  Many people were of the view of just crack on, those with health issues should be protected, but not the complete social and economic lock downs that actually happened. I was in that camp. 

But was it a conspiracy by governments?  Not so sure.  I think it was the result of the expectation of people that 'they' should look after them. Quite how we have got to that position is probably the outcome of the relatively safe world we have enjoyed for a very long time.  You can still see that expectation with things like the energy price rises, where people are calling for protection from the inevitable.

S'pose it all depends on where we sit.  Do we want to be fully protected by our governments from everything, in which case we have to pay for it, or do we want individual  self-determination willing to manage the risks ourselves? 

 

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

55 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Trillions! 
money spent on vaccines we have been told for decades are impossible. 
why would governments lie…… ?    When do they ever tell the truth? 

Things change. Medicine moves with technology.

30 years ago, HIV was a death sentence. Now? Your lifespan is as good as anyone's. The medical cost now? 1 pill a day, and, you won't pass it on whilst medicated properly either.

57 minutes ago, Cambon said:

However, as time passes, as politicians speak out, as the reality starts to kick in, we have all been screwed over in the biggest possible way. Far bigger than anything else imaginable. The possible repercussions are very scary. Those people who do not see it are scarier still! 

Are you familiar with Occam's razor? The reality is, a pandemic like the one we had hadn't been seen by luck more than skill. The world is more interconnected now than it ever has been in human history.

Combine that with a virus that nobody has any real immunity to, and virulence far beyond what is typical for a coronavirus, you're in for a bad time.

Have you actually spoken to anyone who has had COVID before and after vaccination? It's a misery without, and you can absolutely see how little Doris will end up taking up a bed whilst she gets over it.

Viruses like Ebola are less problematic on a wide scale, simply by being far more deadly. It makes it quite hard for a virus to spread out and about, when the infected is at home with various bodily tissues sloughing out. In frank terms, you genuinely do shit your guts out, as well as nasty things like bleeding from your eyeballs.

The places where it does spread well, often have traditions and rituals of washing and preparing the deceased, which, also happens to be the point that the body is riddled with virus.

COVID swings the other way. Transmissible enough that whilst not particularly deadly, it's a numbers game. Killing and hospitalising a small fraction people seems minor at a small scale, but when it's in the millions, those fractions add up.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

22 minutes ago, Gladys said:

But was it a conspiracy by governments?  Not so sure.

If one faction could embarrass all of the others by coming out and exposing the conspiracy, what's the incentive not to?

Are we expected to believe that countries that have been hostile for decades are suddenly collaborating and colluding?

[Jarndyce]

9 hours ago, Gladys said:

S'pose it all depends on where we sit.  Do we want to be fully protected by our governments from everything, in which case we have to pay for it, or do we want individual  self-determination willing to manage the risks ourselves? 

Essentially, that was Manx Forums during lockdown: one faction blaming IOMG for the bad effects of lockdown (going too far); the other faction blaming IOMG for every death (not going far enough).   Tearing lumps off each other on a daily (hourly) basis.   Of course, there was also the psychodrama of the Howard ‘n’ Dave show to chew over, but even then there were two factions - even when it became like a blatantly self-serving version of the Muppet Show (oops! evenhandedness slipped a bit there!)

So where we sit as a population (assuming MF represents a cross-section) is in two diametrically opposed places.   On the “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” question, most governments will err on caution and do more rather than less - especially if they were underprepared when it all kicked off.   “Global pandemic” was at the top of most governments’ risk list - so why was the world so unprepared?   Because preparedness costs money.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

[genericUserName]

21 hours ago, Cambon said:

I never thought like this at the start

Your posting history shows a pattern of believing daft conspiracy nonsense. At least as far back as QE and wild speculation about interest rates over a decade ago. You seem to see the world in terms of them against you.

Your take on Covid fits that pattern.

[genericUserName]

21 hours ago, Gladys said:

You can still see that expectation with things like the energy price rises, where people are calling for protection from the inevitable.

The energy price rises result in massively increased profits for the energy companies including oil and gas production which were once all state owned. It's not unreasonable to expect the public to be protected from those price increases and for the companies to take smaller profits via significant windfall taxes.

Even here on the island there is a diminishing case for not actually taxing companies which over time will inevitably employ ever fewer people (negating the job argument). AI is quickly coming for the middle classes and high earners in the same way that automation, Polish coal and offshoring once came for industrial sector jobs.

Soon the entire workforce will need protection from the inevitable.

Edited April 3, 2023 by genericUserName

[Jarndyce]

21 hours ago, Gladys said:

people are calling for protection from the Exploding Plastic Inevitable.

Just Say No, you kids…

Edited April 3, 2023 by Jarndyce
Drug warning!

[Black Mirror]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:30 AM, P.K. said:

@Black Mirror

The BBC were allowed access to an intensive care covid ward during the pandemic.

As the duty doctor conducted the crew through the ward he pointed to each bed in turn saying

"Unvaccinated" "Unvaccinated" "Unvaccinated" "Unvaccinated" "Unvaccinated" "Unvaccinated" etc etc.

Being a surprisingly sensible and well-rounded individual, surprisingly since I'm manx, I do wish you and your ilk would stop trying to push your mumbo-jumbo pseudo-science nonsense onto folks who can see only too clearly that you're talking bollox. It's such a waste of bandwidth...

Clue: Before vaccines lots of fatalities. After vaccines fatalities tail right off.

What is your statistically proven fact-based explanation for this? See mine above for example.

Purely for comedy value of course...

PS - Opinions aren't facts. They're just opinions. Make sure you can tell the difference.

 

On 3/30/2023 at 3:52 PM, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Tell me you're a grumpy alt-right conspiracy theorist without telling me you're a grumpy alt-right conspiracy theorist. You go first.

 

On 4/2/2023 at 11:31 PM, Gladys said:

We can look back and analyse, but no one knew if this was going to be a true plague wiping out the population.  Many people were of the view of just crack on, those with health issues should be protected, but not the complete social and economic lock downs that actually happened. I was in that camp. 

But was it a conspiracy by governments?  Not so sure.  I think it was the result of the expectation of people that 'they' should look after them. Quite how we have got to that position is probably the outcome of the relatively safe world we have enjoyed for a very long time.  You can still see that expectation with things like the energy price rises, where people are calling for protection from the inevitable.

 

On 3/31/2023 at 8:47 PM, Cambon said:

You and Black Mirror are wasting your time trying to convince the brainwashed that there can be anything other than THEIR truth. You know, the truth that governments proactively enforced with lockdowns and legislation. The truth Big Pharma could provide a vaccine in record time WITH NO RISK to the public, only the perceived benefit of….. well….I don’t know…..not really sure.

The reality is that, in the case of the U.K., many thousands needlessly died due to hospitals being emptied into care  homes without testing. Completely pathetic! Over 300,000 died in total having tested positive for Covid up to 28 days prior to death, regardless of how they died or what they died of. All are included. The U.K. economy suffered a trillion pound deficit to pay for it. World wide, Covid has been and still is the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in history. Ever! It is literally legalised theft!

The reality is that nearly two years of lockdowns have caused so many illnesses to be undiagnosed that it could cause over 1,000,000 premature deaths. On top of that, long Covid is finally being accepted. And, although most brainwashed will not believe it, some vaccines are causing life changing issues, similar to long Covid. All this happened for fear of a bad cold! All this for a bad cold!

 

On 3/31/2023 at 7:37 AM, potiron said:

Yer flogging a dead horse with that arogant AC prick. And the rest of the pro vax loonies . Dont bring facts into this ,us anti vax people who all think were being microchipped by bill gates and the lizard people are crazy. Must be all the magnetic 5g in the air..  dont argue with mindless idiots like him on the internet ,they drag you down to ther level and beat you with experience. 1 thing the vax has done , is turned most of its users into ignorant ,intollerable arsholes. Who do resuuurch And know more than any medical professionals.  The fact that more medical professionals than the state funded ones opposed the vax ,and more studies are backing the theory that the vax does more harm than good to most of the population has no place in here with the MF crabs

 

I needed a break from this thread and avoided it for a few days because the bickering is contagious and silly. I am back with a rebuke to the two postings of P.K. and AcousticallyChallenged on top.

The BBC is not an impartial observer. As the master propagandist of the British establishment, it is concerned with narratives rather than objective reporting of news and information. Its most common tool is selective reporting; ignoring all the bits that don’t fit the official narrative. Occasionally, when confronted with too much embarrassing evidence, it can resort to falsehoods and open lies, presented with that patina of professionalism, those dry voices and self-righteous glances we are all familiar with.

According to official figures, circa 94% of people hospitalised with Covid or dying from Covid are vaccinated. This is in part due the the higher probability of older/vulnerable people to be vaccinated from Covid. Nevertheless, the BBC reporting of what was happening in those hospital wards was pure rubbish, fed to the gullible. Thanks P.K. for reminding it to us, much appreciated.

In the following I will briefly illustrate another glaring example of deliberate BBC misinformation.

According to ONS (Office of National Statistics) figures in the UK a 7% of people in my age-band (the 50-60 years old) has never had a Covid jab. We know from plenty of other sources (telephone surveys etc) that the actual figure for my age-bad is circa 14%, and that 20-26% of the overall UK population never had the jab, more than double official ONS estimate for the overall UK population. Analogously, in the US the CDC is stating that 85% of the overall population had the jab; when we know that 71% of US adults had the jab at the least once and 29% never had it (Rasmussen reports etc).

This happens because ONS data are based on a subset of England residents that excludes all those not registered with a GP and not registered in the 2011 census; it is missing some 8 million adults who are not at all representative of those in the ONS sample.

If the proportion of never-jabbed is underestimated by a factor 2, the rate of incidence of serious/deadly Covid (as well as any other illness and kind of death) among the never-jabbed must be overestimated by the same factor 2.

My illustration of this issue is simplified (see the paper of the 2nd attachment and relative Substack threads if you wish to delve into the details). Briefly, the ONS was aware of the bias and tried to correct it, but their correction is also flawed. The authors of the paper attached below “What the ONS Mortality Covid-19 Surveillance Data can tell us about Vaccine Safety and Efficacy” made a detailed analysis of the problem and confronted the ONS. The ONS replied to them and basically admitted everything. Read it by yourself in the third paragraph of the letter of the third attachment below: “As ONS makes clear in its publication, this analysis is not intended to be, nor it is appropriate for, understanding vaccine effectiveness.”

The conclusion is that the ONS dataset is so compromised with inaccuracies, anomalies, and biases that it cannot be used to reliably determine vaccine efficacy and safety (precise words of the authors of the paper of the second attachment).

Nevertheless, as you would expect, the ONS sent its estimate of vaccine effectiveness based on the wrong population sample to the BBC an the BBC, guess, made no question of the data and published and reported that very flawed conclusion to the unsuspecting public; last February it made the official BBC news. BBC lies.

Was all that deception a conspiracy? Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, their WEF chummies wanting to depopulate the world with a bioweapon masked as vaccine? No, that is what the Alt-Right would say to denigrate those it hates most. There is actually a more prosaic explanation: stupidity; plain stupidity. The Branch Covidians are some of the most fitting examples of those social theories of human stupidity for explaining totalitarianism. Here are some examples.

Bonhoeffer‘s Theory of Stupidity:

    https://sproutsschools.com/bonhoeffers-theory-of-stupidity/

Or

 

 

Cipolla’s 5 Laws of Human Stupidity:   

 

 

Jung is also mostly helpful with explaining the epidemic of madness; how an entire population can become mentally ill:   

 

 

P.K.’s and AcousticallyChallenged’s mindset is what those videos are about. Enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

26 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

According to official figures, circa 94% of people hospitalised with Covid or dying from Covid are vaccinated. This is in part due the the higher probability of older/vulnerable people to be vaccinated from Covid. Nevertheless, the BBC reporting of what was happening in those hospital wards was pure rubbish, fed to the gullible. Thanks P.K. for reminding it to us, much appreciated.

If the majority of people are vaccinated, then, it's a number games right?

A bigger fraction of a small number is much bigger than a small fraction of a much bigger number?

Science innit.

27 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

According to ONS (Office of National Statistics) figures in the UK a 7% of people in my age-band (the 50-60 years old) has never had a Covid jab. We know from plenty of other sources (telephone surveys etc) that the actual figure for my age-bad is circa 14%, and that 20-26% of the overall UK population never had the jab, more than double official ONS estimate for the overall UK population. Analogously, in the US the CDC is stating that 85% of the overall population had the jab; when we know that 71% of US adults had the jab at the least once and 29% never had it (Rasmussen reports etc).

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

UK population: 67.33 million

53,813,491 first doses given, per the UK gubbymint.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

So, we can remember our sums back from school, long ago as that may be for you.

53,813,491 divided by 67,330,000 = 0.7992498292

So, we can round that to 0.799 and times that by 100 for our percentage.

79.9% of the British population have had at least one dose.

This is freely available data.

Plus, you can solve your numbers discrepancy with the following from the ONS:

Quote

First and second dose rates overestimate uptake. They include vaccinations given to children aged between 5 and 11 years but are shown as a proportion of the population aged 12 years and over.  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

 

Also, @Black Mirror you haven't explained the logic behind citing Dr Classen, who decries any form of vaccination. You of all people should be able to identify someone with an axe to grind.

 

38 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

Bonhoeffer‘s Theory of Stupidity

So, you're resorting to calling people stupid, because that's the best you've got?

Gosh, you must've spent so much time on it too.

[Jarndyce]

1 hour ago, Black Mirror said:

I needed a break from this thread…etc

TL;DR