Non-Believer Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Out of the blue said: Unless they need to sell, now is a poor time to put your hotel on the market, especially as a going concern. No buyer is going to second guess the future direction of the island’s hospitality industry, let alone make such a large investment in it. There will always be interest, but by investors looking at the locality and they will not be interested in paying for the ‘goodwill’ and will want a good deal. If I owned one of these hotels I would be sitting it out if possible to see how all of this pans out. I really feel for them. It will be a true test of the value of guest houses of largely Victorian construction with a currently very dubious market for guest numbers. Any takers? Edited September 17, 2020 by Non-Believer Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benl Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, P.K. said: Unlike most of Europe Sweden did not lock down. The result was way more excess deaths than their Scandawegian neighbours for little if any economic gain. In other words reality trashes your "argument". Sweden’s grim Covid-19 result: More death and nearly equal economic damage Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered. This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighbouring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better. “They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.” https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102 I never thought I'd say this but I'm glad Mr Quayle is in charge and not some misguided, ill-informed zealot like you... I think the press got a bit excited about Sweden and I don't really think it is fair. Doing my public health training there, and having lived there I don't really think it is comparable to other counties. The swedes generally have a lot more trust in their government and their public agencies have a lot more freedom from political intervention. At the start of covid, they issued recommendations that weren't too dissimilar from the UK, self isolate, don't go out other than for essentials, work from home if you can and try to avoid public transport. The difference was they didn't make it law/compulsory, instead leaving it to the judgement of the people. The result seems to be that they ended up with more of a slow burn with the authorities seemingly accepting they aren't going to beat it rather than the peaks and troughs the UK has seen. Society in Sweden is much more socially distant, very few multi-generational households, and a different attitude to working when unwell; you're essentially treated as a danger if you go to work even with a cold and told to go home. Their public health surveillance is incredible, every test, prescription, medical records, school records and essentially any interaction with the state is recorded and linked to your national insurance number. They even use bots to monitor twitter, newspapers and facebook to look for clusters of people who report not feeling well. The result is data you can trust and usually free from political interference. The swedish economy has been hit by exports and other impacts, and they openly accept they failed to protect nursing homes (as happened in the UK). I don't think it's fair to slam them, neither do I think it is fair to hallow their actions. It's just different and proof not one size fits all. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, benl said: I think the press got a bit excited about Sweden and I don't really think it is fair. Doing my public health training there, and having lived there I don't really think it is comparable to other counties. The swedes generally have a lot more trust in their government and their public agencies have a lot more freedom from political intervention. At the start of covid, they issued recommendations that weren't too dissimilar from the UK, self isolate, don't go out other than for essentials, work from home if you can and try to avoid public transport. The difference was they didn't make it law/compulsory, instead leaving it to the judgement of the people. The result seems to be that they ended up with more of a slow burn with the authorities seemingly accepting they aren't going to beat it rather than the peaks and troughs the UK has seen. Society in Sweden is much more socially distant, very few multi-generational households, and a different attitude to working when unwell; you're essentially treated as a danger if you go to work even with a cold and told to go home. Their public health surveillance is incredible, every test, prescription, medical records, school records and essentially any interaction with the state is recorded and linked to your national insurance number. They even use bots to monitor twitter, newspapers and facebook to look for clusters of people who report not feeling well. The result is data you can trust and usually free from political interference. The swedish economy has been hit by exports and other impacts, and they openly accept they failed to protect nursing homes (as happened in the UK). I don't think it's fair to slam them, neither do I think it is fair to hallow their actions. It's just different and proof not one size fits all. Quite. Yes the population density is a factor but so is the density of the population! However the fact remains their excess deaths were way and above those of their neighbours. For little or no economic gain it would seem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, benl said: Society in Sweden is much more socially distant, very few multi-generational households, and a different attitude to working when unwell; you're essentially treated as a danger if you go to work even with a cold and told to go home. Compare that with Italy where it is often the case that the whole extended family socialise, and dance in the square and all that palaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Well said PK agree with every word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Neil Down said: It won't have helped Let's vote on 'understatement of the year'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 hours ago, benl said: I think the press got a bit excited about Sweden and I don't really think it is fair. Doing my public health training there, and having lived there I don't really think it is comparable to other counties. The swedes generally have a lot more trust in their government and their public agencies have a lot more freedom from political intervention. At the start of covid, they issued recommendations that weren't too dissimilar from the UK, self isolate, don't go out other than for essentials, work from home if you can and try to avoid public transport. The difference was they didn't make it law/compulsory, instead leaving it to the judgement of the people. The result seems to be that they ended up with more of a slow burn with the authorities seemingly accepting they aren't going to beat it rather than the peaks and troughs the UK has seen. Society in Sweden is much more socially distant, very few multi-generational households, and a different attitude to working when unwell; you're essentially treated as a danger if you go to work even with a cold and told to go home. Their public health surveillance is incredible, every test, prescription, medical records, school records and essentially any interaction with the state is recorded and linked to your national insurance number. They even use bots to monitor twitter, newspapers and facebook to look for clusters of people who report not feeling well. The result is data you can trust and usually free from political interference. The swedish economy has been hit by exports and other impacts, and they openly accept they failed to protect nursing homes (as happened in the UK). I don't think it's fair to slam them, neither do I think it is fair to hallow their actions. It's just different and proof not one size fits all. Excellent, well-informed, post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 All countries handling it differently , the Dutch don’t seem bothered either Infection rates have hit a new daily peak in the Netherlands - the country was recently added to the UK's red alert list, and its neighbours are following suit. And yet on the streets of Dutch cities people are behaving as if the virus has vanished. There's a burgeoning movement which subscribes to the "it's a government hoax to control us" conspiracy, Dutch Facebook and Twitter are resplendent with images mocking those who take the risk of infection seriously. Police were called to a friends picnic the other day after a stranger began coughing and wishing coronavirus on them after they tried to create some social distance. Why aren't the Dutch panicking? My (Dutch) Twitter followers offered some insights. This is a deliberate and successful gaslighting campaign by the government A message that Covid only affects the elderly and sick Iedereen moet het voor zichzelf beslissen" - everybody has to decide for themselves A toxic mix of Dutch exceptionalism governed by technocratic leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Looks like the police overstepped mark again, how many successful appeals now against these sentences for borders breaches? http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57821&headline=Magistrates did not have the right to ban you§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Banker said: Looks like the police overstepped mark again, how many successful appeals now against these sentences for borders breaches? http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57821&headline=Magistrates did not have the right to ban you§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Have you read that article? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Also 21 job losses announced at airport due to borders issues to go along with pub closures but don’t worry the economy is doing well!! According to some anyway, even Alf says wait a few weeks to see jobs position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Have you read that article? Compo claims against AG must be going through the roof... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Banker said: Looks like the police overstepped mark again, how many successful appeals now against these sentences for borders breaches? http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57821&headline=Magistrates did not have the right to ban you§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 As TheTeapot points out, yet again you're clearly not even bothering to read what you link to yourself, never mind what other people say. The appeal had nothing to do with Covid or border breaches. The Deemster ruled that the original exclusion order was issued incorrectly, which meant that her subsequent conviction[1] for breaching it was also wrong. One thing it does share with the two overturnings of lockdown breaches (Powell and McCartney)is that the lawyer who managed to get the decisions reverses was Paul Glover. Clearly the person to get hold of if you think a mistake has been made. [1] Oddly enough, not only has the newspaper article describing this disappeared from their website (and I can find not record of the case anywhere else), but all other reports about her have gone as well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetchtyke Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Quite. Yes the population density is a factor but so is the density of the population! However the fact remains their excess deaths were way and above those of their neighbours. For little or no economic gain it would seem. It's far too early to tell if Sweden's economy has done better or worse than anyone else's. But no country exists in isolation and so their neighbours' economic woes will drag them down too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Rushen Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Banker said: Looks like the police overstepped mark again, how many successful appeals now against these sentences for borders breaches? http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=57821&headline=Magistrates did not have the right to ban you§ionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020 Any court action would have highlighted that the persons previous exclusion was wrong. Any court action would have triggered the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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