IOM Covid removing restrictions

[P.K.]

Just now, thesultanofsheight said:

You’re starting an argument in that aggressive and angry way that you do when challenged. I’m in the pub. I’m not being provoked into a pointless argument with you on herd immunity. It’s a perfectly valid theory and will be shown to be the reason why all this eventually burns out. Cheers! I hope you get to stand in your garden soon. The cool air should do you some good. 

It's not a pointless argument.

I'm simply trying to educate you that your belief in Covid-19 herd immunity has zero basis in fact.

The only thing that would make it pointless is your bigoted ignorance making it impossible for you to grasp the facts of the matter.

But if you insist on living in ignorance, well, that's your loss...

[wrighty]

37 minutes ago, P.K. said:

 

How is it you don't know that being infected by Covid-19 only gives you very short term immunity making herd immunity a total non-starter unless driven by an effective vaccine?

I don’t know that - why are you assuming it? Is it because you’re assuming that immunity = antibody levels? Immune system’s a bit more complex than that. And what immune mechanisms are getting driven by an effective vaccine that won’t be activated by an actual infection with a whole virus, as opposed to bits of one or altered ones?

Herd immunity is absolutely what is needed here - it’s working out the best way of getting it while protecting the vulnerable, and maintaining core health services and infrastructure that is the issue. 
 

Or perhaps I’m as stupid as Bozo too?

 

PS I’m also going to the pub in a bit, to see some live music. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by wrighty
Post script

[finlo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again it's time to let the genie out of the bottle then we would be able to put all this nonsense behind us in a relatively short order.

[dilligaf]

47 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

You’re starting an argument in that aggressive and angry way that you do when challenged. I’m in the pub. I’m not being provoked into a pointless argument with you on herd immunity. It’s a perfectly valid theory and will be shown to be the reason why all this eventually burns out. Cheers! I hope you get to stand in your garden soon (as long as there’s less than 7 of you). The cool air might do you some good. 

You are in the pub, but posting to MF.  You often  say I am sad, but that must be worse, surely?

[P.K.]

18 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I don’t know that - why are you assuming it? Is it because you’re assuming that immunity = antibody levels? Immune system’s a bit more complex than that. And what immune mechanisms are getting driven by an effective vaccine that won’t be activated by an actual infection with a whole virus, as opposed to bits of one or altered ones?

Herd immunity is absolutely what is needed here - it’s working out the best way of getting it while protecting the vulnerable, and maintaining core health services and infrastructure that is the issue. 
 

Or perhaps I’m as stupid as Bozo too?

PS I’m also going to the pub in a bit, to see some live music. 

I think you mean "listen" to some live music. But why do you think that's something I need to know?

Unlike tsos I'm not assuming anything.

I have read that it's possible to contract Covid-19 more than once. Because it's happened. I have also read that the antibodies the body generates on contracting Covid-19 fade out after six weeks or so. Hence you can contract it more than once.

I have also read that herd immunity has only ever been achieved with an effective vaccine.

So have I got that wrong somewhere?

PS - sorry for being left of centre....

[pongo]

13 minutes ago, finlo said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again it's time to let the genie out of the bottle then we would be able to put all this nonsense behind us in a relatively short order.

The PM got really sick with it (and according to much of the reporting hasn't yet really recovered). And he's presumably got access to the best medical treatment available.

I wonder many normals of a similar age would cope without access to the kind of level of care which the PM quite rightly enjoys.

Edited September 18, 2020 by pongo

[Roger Mexico]

There's an interesting summary article on herd immunity published in Nature this month, which corrects a lot of the wishful thinking about the subject.  Unfortunately for most of those using it, the phrase seems less of a scientific methodology than a vague hope that everything will turn out OK in the end if nothing gets done, and that if anyone has to suffer it won't be them.

A just-published article in the Lancet looks at the history of the term.

 

[Banker]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

I think you mean "listen" to some live music. But why do you think that's something I need to know?

Unlike tsos I'm not assuming anything.

I have read that it's possible to contract Covid-19 more than once. Because it's happened. I have also read that the antibodies the body generates on contracting Covid-19 fade out after six weeks or so. Hence you can contract it more than once.

I have also read that herd immunity has only ever been achieved with an effective vaccine.

So have I got that wrong somewhere?

PS - sorry for being left of centre....

Looks like PK IS UNRAVELING again 

[dilligaf]

13 minutes ago, Banker said:

Looks like PK IS UNRAVELING again 

Out of your depth there fella. 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

There's an interesting summary article on herd immunity published in Nature this month, which corrects a lot of the wishful thinking about the subject.  Unfortunately for most of those using it, the phrase seems less of a scientific methodology than a vague hope that everything will turn out OK in the end if nothing gets done, and that if anyone has to suffer it won't be them.

A just-published article in the Lancet looks at the history of the term.

 

I found the same two articles.  It would seem that T cell immunity is the unknown   However Sunetra Gupta believes that herd immunity is the likely way out.  I suppose it is how we get there that is the big question.  

[Gladys]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

I think you mean "listen" to some live music. But why do you think that's something I need to know?

Unlike tsos I'm not assuming anything.

I have read that it's possible to contract Covid-19 more than once. Because it's happened. I have also read that the antibodies the body generates on contracting Covid-19 fade out after six weeks or so. Hence you can contract it more than once.

I have also read that herd immunity has only ever been achieved with an effective vaccine.

So have I got that wrong somewhere?

PS - sorry for being left of centre....

T cells, apparently not antibodies.  There has to be a reason why the virus is not more deadly and, in many, asymptomatic.  Perhaps that is because some unexpected immune response is at play. 

[NoTail]

I listened to an interesting podcast about the bubonic plague which first hit Italy in 14th century. Killed 50% of the population of Europe eventually. Of course they had no idea what it was, how it was spread or how to treat it.  In a few short years it disappeared. 

This pestilence we have is really a pussy cat in comparison.  In a year or two all will be back to normal. 

[P.K.]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

T cells, apparently not antibodies.  There has to be a reason why the virus is not more deadly and, in many, asymptomatic.  Perhaps that is because some unexpected immune response is at play. 

I believe that is the Oxford vaccine approach?

Let's all hope one of the many vaccine programs succeeds asap.

Because it looks to me that it's the only way of achieving herd immunity....

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I believe that is the Oxford vaccine approach?

Let's all hope one of the many vaccine programs succeeds asap.

Because it looks to me that it's the only way of achieving herd immunity....

Given the number of asymptomatic 'cases' (which, according to some, is a nonsense - no symptoms, no case), perhaps there already is a degree of herd immunity, I suppose the trick is to find out why and see if that will lead to a vaccine for wider use. 

[Neil Down]

1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

Out of your depth there fella. 

He’d be out of his depth in a car park puddle...