Banker Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 8 hours ago, P.K. said: I'm not over-simplifying anything. I'm just quoting from the dashboard. And there's no such thing as "anecdotal evidence"... Here’s a headline for all the Covid panickers like you spreading hysteria https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12722140/coronavirus-disaster-top-scientists-tv-message/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 You are all arguing based on mythical figures created to forward whatever action each govt. wants to put to the population. All the figures are based on different calculation methods throughout the world and of course not all cases are known about and not all attributed deaths are actually covid related just as some non attributed actually are covid caused. Soooooo, why are we all arguing about which govt. has done the, 'best', when our arguments are based on myths. All we really know is that there have been many more deaths in populations reportedly caused by a new disease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Banker said: Here’s a headline for all the Covid panickers like you spreading hysteria https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12722140/coronavirus-disaster-top-scientists-tv-message/ As I posted earlier here are the true figures as collated by PHE. Ignore at your peril! You can see from the graph on England that deaths from Covid-19 have increased the UK annual death rate by some 20%. That's a big number and a lot of people. Also, despite Bozo et al trying to massage the figures, they are responsible for 65,000 excess deaths. The website is also very comprehensive and tries to make sense of the situation. 11 hours ago, P.K. said: As I understand it for all the above reasons "excess deaths" measure the true cost. For example some folks may not have been able to get the treatment they needed and succumbed to their condition as a result. But, even though they did not catch the virus, it was ultimately the pandemic that caused their demise. The UK was very lucky in that despite having the (now) seventh largest economy due to years of cuts our NHS capability was second from last in the EU. But unlike Italy and Spain for example our ICU's were not completely overwhelmed. But that came at a cost of dropping pretty much everything else. If they had not done that then the fatalities from contracting Covid could have been higher with an NHS overwhelmed. This site from PHE is trying to build a comprehensive picture. This graph gives a good idea of the situation. From 20/3/20 to 4/9/20 there were approx 270k registered deaths in England. There were 53,318 excess deaths with 93.1% where Covid was mentioned. Thats a lot of folks dying from the virus. See: https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/mortality-surveillance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the blue Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: As I posted earlier here are the true figures as collated by PHE. Ignore at your peril! You can see from the graph on England that deaths from Covid-19 have increased the UK annual death rate by some 20%. That's a big number and a lot of people. Also, despite Bozo et al trying to massage the figures, they are responsible for 65,000 excess deaths. The website is also very comprehensive and tries to make sense of the situation. What is also very apparent in the figures is that deaths are almost exclusively those above 75, and those with pre existing conditions. A society should protect the elderly and vulnerable in society, but it is foolish to inflict massive and long term damage on that society with blunt, all encompassing measures, that invariably lead to future issues for all, including those we were initially trying to protect. There has to be a better way to deal with this virus than lock down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Out of the blue said: What is also very apparent in the figures is that deaths are almost exclusively those above 75, and those with pre existing conditions. A society should protect the elderly and vulnerable in society, but it is foolish to inflict massive and long term damage on that society with blunt, all encompassing measures, that invariably lead to future issues for all, including those we were initially trying to protect. There has to be a better way to deal with this virus than lock down. Sure it hits the elderly hardest. But they have a right to life just like everybody else. It's also very obvious that the rise in excess deaths are lives cut short by Covid. You would have to have a total lack of human empathy not to be concerned by that... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Out of the blue said: What is also very apparent in the figures is that deaths are almost exclusively those above 75, and those with pre existing conditions. A society should protect the elderly and vulnerable in society, but it is foolish to inflict massive and long term damage on that society with blunt, all encompassing measures, that invariably lead to future issues for all, including those we were initially trying to protect. There has to be a better way to deal with this virus than lock down. It is this with bells on & nobody can realistically argue against it. We must get on now with the absolute focus on protecting the vulnerable. It really is that simple. We know who it hits & how to deal with it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Out of the blue said: What is also very apparent in the figures is that deaths are almost exclusively those above 75, You've been tuning into fake news mate. Yes the figures are very much swayed to the over 75s but not "very apparent" and not "almost exclusively" at all. Here's an example graph from BBC, but there are 1000s more out there of course: Edited September 21, 2020 by Barlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Banker reads and gets all his information from the Sun comic, now why does that not surprise me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the blue Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Barlow said: You've been tuning into fake news mate. Yes the figures are very much swayed to the over 75s but not "very apparent" and not "almost exclusively" at all. Here's an example graph from BBC, but there are 1000s more out there of course: I was referring to Public Health England’s ‘fake news’. PK - I agree, and if you reread my post I stated the the old and the vulnerable should be protected. I personally empathise with this demographic, but also empathise with the businesses, youth and all of the others effected by the non targeted restrictions. Edited September 21, 2020 by Out of the blue typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Out of the blue said: I was referring to Public Health England’s ‘fake news’. PK - I agree, and if you reread my post I stated the the old and the vulnerable should be protected. I personally empathise with this demographic, but also empathise with the businesses, youth and all of the others effected by the non targeted restrictions. Why call into question the PHE figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I see the UK scientific advisers are using an IFR of 0.4% in their estimates of covid fatality https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54234084 50000 cases per day resulting in 200 deaths per day is the prediction. Or is it going to be over 5000 PK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingfemme Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Weeks ago the UK government death stats showed well over 40,000 deaths from Covid-19. Today they show less than 30,000. So the figures have already been "massaged". One wonders what they really are. In the past week 2 people under 60 have died of this disease - no comments as to their co-morbidities. Apparently 2019 was a year of very few deaths from many of the "expected" causes and left a lot of "elderly" people on the planet who had not been expected to still be here...........they form a large part of those "excess deaths". Death rates have been falling steadily since 1980 and are still well below those between 1950-1970. See here UK death rates 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, wrighty said: I see the UK scientific advisers are using an IFR of 0.4% in their estimates of covid fatality https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54234084 50000 cases per day resulting in 200 deaths per day is the prediction. Or is it going to be over 5000 PK? Good to hear a balanced view rather than PK and Sids views which are at extreme end of hysteria 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Sure it hits the elderly hardest. But they have a right to life just like everybody else. It's also very obvious that the rise in excess deaths are lives cut short by Covid. You would have to have a total lack of human empathy not to be concerned by that... If people really gave a shit there'd be no drinking or smoking allowed, that would save more people than a covid vacine 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, WTF said: If people really gave a shit there'd be no drinking or smoking allowed, that would save more people than a covid vacine Agree yes let’s protect anyone who might possibly die so that means: No smoking No drinking No cars to have road accidents in No sugar No trans fats in food No drugs No crossing the road No walking in front of buses No flying as planes might crash No trains they crash too No swimming - you might drown No TT (that’s lethal) I read a great book called The Machine Stops where all risks have been removed from peoples lives and they just sit in their rooms interacting with people through the TV while machines do everything for them. That seems to be the life some people supporting all this aspire to. Edited September 21, 2020 by thesultanofsheight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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