IOM Covid removing restrictions

[TheTeapot]

Oh I know, they're hugely important, i've just got my cynical hat on.

[wrighty]

14 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

I'm probably wrong, often am. Wrighty seems to think it's a good idea.

I don't think it's a bad plan - it's an established fact that covid affects the young far less than the old, and the vast majority of 18-21 year olds will have a mild or asymptomatic experience.  There will be odd ones who have it bad - but each year there are odd cases of meningitis among returning students, and we don't lock down for fear of that (yes I know we're not in a meningitis pandemic, but the likelihood of a serious illness or even death is at least comparable). My son went back last weekend - I've no doubt he'll be fine, but in some respects he may as well have stayed here.

I do feel sorry for the students, and for those going away to uni for the first time having to isolate with people they don't know, and then to be told it's illegal for them to go home - they must be wishing they hadn't bothered or at least deferred.  A big part of wanting them to return must be economic, rather than the government covertly pursuing a herd immunity strategy.  Without the fees universities will go bust, and many (not just academics) would lose jobs.

[Roger Mexico]

37 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

It does rather make you wonder why the U.K. government was so keen to get them all back. 

So the universities could take all those lovely fees off them and not have to bailed out by the government is part of the reason.  And they thought that it would somehow magically restart the city centre economies without also restarting other things.

But if it all went wrong they could just just blame the students for doing what they told them to.  Back in March I pointed out that most of the media were determined to blame the consequences of the epidemic on the public rather than the people in charge during it - the Conservative government - and we have seen endless examples of this tactic since.   And it's clear from the reactions here and elsewhere that a lot of people are brainwashed enough to accept this sort of nonsense.

But it isn't true there was an interesting Twitter thread last week using the latest ONS report to show that most people were continuing to follow the rules on social distancing, wearing masks, not meeting in large groups and so on.  The changes that were happening were the ones that government was promoting - going back into work, eating out more, socialising in public.  And now of course it's the fault of the people for doing what they were ordered to do.  Students are just a particularly useful group to blame among all these.

[pongo]

13 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

after being used (manipulated) they're now getting the rough end of the stick from the baying masses.

I've seen that written but I've not seen or heard any significant evidence of it. Is it actually true that anyone is especially getting blamed?

Apart from govts. And personally I'd struggle to blame them much either. They can't really win whatever they do.

ETA: mostly this thing just reminds me how impressive most people are.

Edited September 24, 2020 by pongo

[thesultanofsheight]

20 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

So they've been used.  In both cases as stated by Wrighty and Roger - to build up immunity and to generate income. What a dirty rotten trick. I had a feeling that was the case but couldn't quite let myself believe it. And worse, after being used (manipulated) they're now getting the rough end of the stick from the baying masses.

Johnson is just a pathological liar and gaslighter. He’s spent his whole life claiming he’s not fucked that woman / fathered that child / done this thing / done that thing. He lies so freely that it’s difficult even for the people near a him to notice. The current target of his gaslighting is students. They’re now to blame for the catastrophic fuck up he and his government has made managing the COVID pandemic. The agenda is to cowardly blame students for ... being students. Do you think if COVID happened in 1982 he and his Bullingdon Club mates wouldn’t have been out coking and boozing it up while all the “oiks” were in doors doing what they were told? People need to wake up and accept the UK is being run by a cowardly pathological liar who has never been held responsible for any of the shit he’s caused for other people in his life. He’s not going to change at 55 years old. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[thommo2010]

39 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

There are 600 students across Glasgow, St. Andrews, Dundee and Aberdeen who have currently tested positive (so not quite as low risk as previously thought) and are attempting to isolate in student accommodations of 6/12 other students sharing kitchens and bathrooms. Some of those other students are also testing positive which, in effect, could mean isolation of twenty four weeks for them all.
 

That’s quite something to have to get used to. 

I spoke with one student today who pays £9200 for tuition over the year and £500 per month for accommodation. There have been no parties for him or for many of the others and his lectures for the foreseeable future are all online. 

It does rather make you wonder why the U.K. government was so keen to get them all back. 

When I say low risk I mean of any harm coming to them. I would imagine the vast majority of that 600 have little to no symptoms. My personal opinion is we should be focusing on 

Hospital admissions 

Icu admissions 

Deaths

The amount of false positives false negatives makes the cases pretty much secondary to the 3i have mentioned 

[dilligaf]

4 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Johnson is just a pathological liar and gaslighter. He’s spent his whole life claiming he’s not fucked that woman / fathered that child / done this thing / done that thing. He lies so freely that it’s difficult even for the people near a him to notice. The current target of his gaslighting is students. They’re now to blame for the catastrophic fuck up he and his government has made managing the COVID pandemic. The agenda is to cowardly blame students for ... being students. Do you think if COVID happened in 1982 he and his Bullingdon Club mates wouldn’t have been out coking and boozing it up while all the “oiks” were in doors doing what they were told? People need to wake up and accept the UK is being run by a cowardly pathological liar who has never been held responsible for any of the shit he’s caused to other people in his life. He’s not going to change at 55 years old. 

Just had to quote that post. You are falling off your high ground.

Edited September 24, 2020 by dilligaf

[thesultanofsheight]

1 minute ago, dilligaf said:

Just had to quote that post. You are falling off your high ground.

Is that another online reference your giving  

[Gladys]

17 minutes ago, wrighty said:

 

I do feel sorry for the students, and for those going away to uni for the first time having to isolate with people they don't know, and then to be told it's illegal for them to go home - they must be wishing they hadn't bothered or at least deferred.  A big part of wanting them to return must be economic, rather than the government covertly pursuing a herd immunity strategy.  Without the fees universities will go bust, and many (not just academics) would lose jobs.

Quite.  For many, it is the first time away from home and no matter how self-sufficient or grown up, it is a big step for those who go to uni on the same land mass, let alone those who have the barrier of the Irish Sea. 

Freshers Week is all about meeting, mingling, joining "socs" to ease that transition. Pretty dire if you can't do that and/or then find that you are the new pariahs. 

When I took my offspring to uni a couple of years ago, we were both full of excitement and anticipation about this new stage.  I went off for a couple of days (Barnard Castle would you believe) then went back to check they had all they needed before going back to Heysham.  All seemed fine until I left and they said " I won't see you off as I don't want to see you drive away."  They didn't last the year. What must it be like for new students who are not able to do the social bit and are then vilified? 

[tetchtyke]

17 minutes ago, pongo said:

I've seen that written but I've not seen or heard any significant evidence of it. Is it actually true that anyone is especially getting blamed?

Apart from govts. And personally I'd struggle to blame them much either. They can't really win whatever they do.

ETA: mostly this thing just reminds me how impressive most people are.

There's loads of it, you had the leaders in Bolton trying to blame their lockdown on a person who went to a few pubs on a Saturday night, just as he was encouraged and legally allowed to do. It's not just Johnson, bone fide narcissist that he is, pulling this trick.

I think anyone who didn't defer their uni place this year was mad. And I'd be on the first boat back if I was a student across right now. Pubs shutting at 10pm and getting the blame for Johnson's failure, or 14 days scuffing about in bed then straight out to Outback. Tough choice.

Joking aside, it must be tough stuck in a city you don't know, the usual socialising routes restricted, even if you don't end up locked in your halls. A lot are already coming back, even those in their early 20s with jobs in the UK are desperate to, and I don't bloody blame them.

Edited September 24, 2020 by tetchtyke

[Roger Mexico]

9 minutes ago, pongo said:

I've seen that written but I've not seen or heard any significant evidence of it. Is it actually true that anyone is especially getting blamed?

Apart from govts. And personally I'd struggle to blame them much either. They can't really win whatever they do.

ETA: mostly this thing just reminds me how impressive most people are.

Here's a poll from YouGov last week that asked: If there was to be a second wave of coronavirus in the UK, who would you hold most responsible…?  And 49% said the public, while only 31% said the Government (13% neither, 8% don't know).  It was the over-65s who were most likely to blame the public - of course they are the biggest consumers of conventional media, the people who still buy the papers.

[Roger Mexico]

7 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Is that another online reference your giving  

Lets be honest, Johnson has spent his life playing the 'lovable rogue' and a lot of people who are supposed to be a lot cleverer than dilli have promoted it and enabled it, even though they knew perfectly well what he was like.

[thesultanofsheight]

10 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Here's a poll from YouGov last week that asked: If there was to be a second wave of coronavirus in the UK, who would you hold most responsible…?  And 49% said the public, while only 31% said the Government (13% neither, 8% don't know).  It was the over-65s who were most likely to blame the public - of course they are the biggest consumers of conventional media, the people who still buy the papers.

Well observed. This isn’t that different to Brexit in that a load of scared pensioners sat at home get to determine just how much shit the rest of us all have to eat. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[The Old Git]

7 hours ago, tetchtyke said:

There's loads of it, you had the leaders in Bolton trying to blame their lockdown on a person who went to a few pubs on a Saturday night, just as he was encouraged and legally allowed to do.

Wasn’t he meant to be isolating after coming back from holiday? 

[The Old Git]

Any number of sources, eg

https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/20/returning-holidaymaker-who-went-on-a-pub-crawl-responsible-for-bolton-spike-13297142/

so hardly legally allowed to.