IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Banker]

Are we the same as Guernsey is not publishing any details of how decisions arrived at as I haven’t seen any?

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/09/26/authority-open-and-transparent-says-st-pier/

[TheTeapot]

8 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

So now reports that more people will likely die because of lockdown than will die of COVID-19. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8774141/Coronavirus-UK-Lockdown-kill-75-000-thats-OFFICIAL-projection.html

Lockdown 'may kill 75,000' - that's the OFFICIAL projection of the deadly toll of Covid restrictions including missed cancer diagnoses, cancelled operations and health impacts of a recession. The virus death toll? 42,000

Why have you edited out the 'over 5 years' bit of that headline Sultan? 

[TheTeapot]

Could it be that you've done it by accident? And not to conviniently manipulate things to make it look far more damning than it actually is. No you wouldn't do that would you?  

[TheTeapot]

Maybe you hoped that even though you provided the link, you thought people wouldn't read it because it's the mail and you could get away with a MASSIVE headline that doesn't represent things properly? You don't have an agenda there do you? You're not purposefully spreading fake news? No, you can't be doing that. An honest mistake it must be.

[thommo2010]

Not sure if posted but seems belgium are relaxing restrictions despite rise in cases.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-coronavirus-restrictions-lockdown-cases-update-today-b572446.html

[Banker]

5 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Maybe you hoped that even though you provided the link, you thought people wouldn't read it because it's the mail and you could get away with a MASSIVE headline that doesn't represent things properly? You don't have an agenda there do you? You're not purposefully spreading fake news? No, you can't be doing that. An honest mistake it must be.

You did read Wrighty comments who broadly supported what was said in article , looks like you are doing more spin than anyone.

from the published death statistics 60 % were over 80 plus the rest were mainly in the 70+ and most with underlying health issues 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

 But what if those 75000 have a total of 1 million years life left between them, and the 500000 have an average life expectancy of a year? How do you decide then? 

That is the most helpful comparator I have seen and is very pertinent. Thank you.

[TheTeapot]

 I'm not disputing the article Banker, I'm disputing how it has been presented on these forums. There is a difference, although as you've proven hundreds of times on here I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Edited September 26, 2020 by TheTeapot

[Banker]

Here’s another headline from telegraph saying same 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/02/patients-dying-home-causes-covid-19-fuelling-excess-uk-deaths/amp/

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

No doubt you didn’t read the article PK. Like everything in the Mail it’s based on reasonable source material and then spun, or over-exaggerated, or headlines are taken out of context. 

It’s based on a SAGE briefing paper. The point is that lockdown has consequences. It’s been said all along that the government has to be careful that the cure isn’t worse than the disease. 75000 dying as a consequence is fine if 500000 are saved, at least in raw numbers.  But what if those 75000 have a total of 1 million years life left between them, and the 500000 have an average life expectancy of a year? How do you decide then? And that’s not even bringing in quality of life. 
 

I know you think it’s easy - all lives are equal and if anyone dies from covid at all it’s Bozo’s fault - but it’s difficult. Simply dismissing stuff because it happens to be reported in the mail makes you as bad as the right whingers you routinely go on about who do the same with material in your favourite rag. 

"Like everything in the Mail" makes you sound as though you're a regular reader....?

We all know that lockdowns have consequences. However measuring them is difficult. Raw numbers are exactly that and as I posted previously there is no such thing as "anecdotal evidence" and never will be. The closest I could get was the gap between seasonally adjusted expected deaths and those relating to Covid. But there are so many variables, take the iom with it's reduction in RTA's for example, that it would take a big investment in time and effort to even get close.

The Daily Wail has been described in the past as "an open sewer" and I would go along with that. They take whatever data, totally exaggerate numbers and sensationalise it, add a massive hateful right wing slant plus any anti-EU anti-immigrant anti-commonsense angle they can invent and then they sell all this bile to those who share their hateful opinions and like their prejudices massaged by it.

But hey, you go on standing up for totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Bozo Johnson and the outpouring of hate that is The Dail Mail because believe me courage never goes out of fashion...

[P.K.]

14 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is the most helpful comparator I have seen and is very pertinent. Thank you.

But they can never be real numbers and in any event policy comes down from above.

[Gladys]

Two issues PJ:

1. Anecdotal evidence is useful if it throws up something unexpected that can then be subjected to gathering emprical evidence to explain the cause.

2. You continue to make this a political matter which closes off consideration of information that does not follow your political leaning. 

[pongo]

7 minutes ago, P.K. said:

The Daily Wail ... anti-commonsense angle 

The Mail is more or less the house journal of the common - sense, back-of-an-envelope, approach to British life. It's the voice of the silent majority - huffing and puffing, angry and befuddled. They don't know a lot about anything, but they know what they hate. And they're all about the common-sense.

Their cousin reads the Express.

[Banker]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

The Mail is more or less the house journal of the common - sense, back-of-an-envelope, approach to British life. It's the voice of the silent majority - huffing and puffing, angry and befuddled. They don't know a lot about anything, but they know what they hate. And they're all about the common-sense.

Their cousin reads the Express.

WTF does that mean! Are you saying you agree the facts are correct or trying to deny the facts like Pk?

also the telegraph has similar headlines 

[pongo]

4 minutes ago, Banker said:

WTF does that mean!

Common sense is a fallacy.