IOM Covid removing restrictions

[P.K.]

7 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Nice dodge

Have a lovely nicely and comfortably retired and distanced from reality evening 😂

Truth actually.

I can well sympathise with those caught between a rock and a hard place but sometimes we make decisions that due to circumstances beyond our control turn out to be not so clever.

Which is no-one's fault really...

[P.K.]

9 minutes ago, Gladys said:

What?  So the personal circumstances of women, ethnic minorities,  the LGBTQ community, disabled, or disadvantaged people should not have influenced policy?  Not to mention the personal circumstances of the many who were maimed or killed in industry due to lax regard for their health and safety?  Of course, personal circumstances must influence policy, that is exactly what a government in the free world is there to do. 

Can we keep to the subject in hand please....

Do you have any real evidence that restricting travel to residents and key workers only is damaging the economy beyond the tourist/accomodation sectors...?

Thanks.

[trmpton]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Truth actually.

I can well sympathise with those caught between a rock and a hard place but sometimes we make decisions that due to circumstances beyond our control turn out to be not so clever.

Which is no-one's fault really...

Meh.

If you ever feel like clicking back a page and re reading the post you quoted, and then answering the question that would be lovely.

[trmpton]

2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Can we keep to the subject in hand please....

Do you have any real evidence that restricting travel to residents and key workers only is damaging the economy beyond the tourist/accomodation sectors...?

Thanks.

Do you have any that it isn’t?  Because it seems that plenty has been posted to say it is (accepted most is anecdotal, from people who live here and work here day in day out) but none has been posted to say it isn’t other than - “because Brexit”

Edited October 1, 2020 by trmpton

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Meh.

If you ever feel like clicking back a page and re reading the post you quoted, and then answering the question that would be lovely.

Please just spell it out again and I'll do my best to answer.

[trmpton]

2 hours ago, trmpton said:

So.  What's your suggestion for slowly getting us back to normal, stopping businesses relocating and minimising (not eliminating, that's unrealistic) Covid 19?  It needs to be managed (like they are in Jersey) with a clear plan of what changes at certain trigger points.  Keeping it out forever was never in the plan and now we are in an insane situation where our public are so scared that no-one is brave enough to do the sensible thing and put measures in place that introduce a small but manageable risk in order to allow life to continue properly.

As an Island we are in a hugely favourable situation.  We should be all over the tech available to manage any infections that arrive on island immediately and take the necessary actions while allowing a proper level of freedom for people to travel to properly risk assessed locations.

Here you go

[trmpton]

6 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Do you have any that it isn’t?  Because it seems that plenty has been posted to say it is (accepted most is anecdotal, from people who live here and work here day in day out) but none has been posted to say it isn’t other than - “because Brexit”

While you are at it.  There is another unanswered question in this one.

Thanks

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, trmpton said:

While you are at it.  There is another unanswered question in this one.

Thanks

Do I have any what that isn't?

Have to say scoping a strategy for Mr Quayle et al who are paid to do it is quite an ask!

Explain why I should...?

[trmpton]

2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Do I have any what that isn't?

Have to say scoping a strategy for Mr Quayle et al who are paid to do it is quite an ask!

Explain why I should...?

Oh my days.

That’s a no to have an answer on both counts then?  Good job I don’t go back through the whole thread and find all the direct questions that you have ignored.

How can you have such strong opinions on something and not be able to back them up with anything other than blaming it on Brexit?

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Can we keep to the subject in hand please....

Do you have any real evidence that restricting travel to residents and key workers only is damaging the economy beyond the tourist/accomodation sectors...?

Thanks.

I am not sure anyone elected you Chairman of this debate,  but that aside......

My point is that personal circumstances do matter and should influence policy.  If people are increasingly feeling isolated and cut off, the government should listen.

As for the economy, no economy exists in its own bubble.  It needs two way transactions with other economies, that's how it works and we should be very wary of thinking that we can continue in a bubble. 

With all the imprisonment of key workers, regardless of whether you think it right or wrong, how many companies do you think will start to say, no way are we sending any employees over to do anything, regardless of how crucial it is to your infrastructure/health service/railways, because we cannot carry the consequent cost of dealing with an employee imprisoned.  So you want a new bit of medical equipment? Bugger off and find some other sucker company who will charge you richly for that added risk of doing business with you. 

[pongo]

24 minutes ago, Gladys said:

With all the imprisonment of key workers, regardless of whether you think it right or wrong, how many companies do you think will start to say, no way are we sending any employees over to do anything, regardless of how crucial it is to your infrastructure/health service/railways, because we cannot carry the consequent cost of dealing with an employee imprisoned.

That's a pretty weak argument. Most companies will welcome the chance to do business.

Lots of people are probably more than familiar with doing business with places much stricter than the IOM about all sorts of things. Saudi and Dubai for example.

24 minutes ago, Gladys said:

As for the economy, no economy exists in its own bubble.  It needs two way transactions with other economies, that's how it works and we should be very wary of thinking that we can continue in a bubble.

But we're not in bubble*. Much of modern business is either online or local. It's a relatively small bit in the middle which is affected by the requirement to self-isolate after travel (a restriction which doesn't prevent travel).

* ETA: not in a bubble economically. But we're absolutely in a bubble in terms of currently being able to enjoy life relatively normally.

Edited October 1, 2020 by pongo

[Gladys]

Point 1, unless these companies are used to going into 'difficult' countries, they will not have the internal processes to deal with the imprisonment of their employees.  Can you imagine what is going on at this very minute in the companies employing the latest batch of prisoners?  Frantic calls and emails with relatives, to their lawyers, their insurers, calls for compensation from the imprisoned employees, union involvement and so on.  It will be the last thing they will want for what can only be insignificant contracts and will blow any profit out of the water.

Let's face it, they will be thinking that it is only like going to the IOW, but with a few more precautions, which if they were not properly prepared probably would include a quick trip to the shop as long as you have your mask on. 

Point 2, there is much business on line, but the number of key workers needed to keep things here ticking along is evident of the fragile bubble we are in. Travel out and back isn't the issue for the economy here, but travel in and out and that is severely restricted. 

[P.K.]

31 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Oh my days.

That’s a no to have an answer on both counts then?  Good job I don’t go back through the whole thread and find all the direct questions that you have ignored.

How can you have such strong opinions on something and not be able to back them up with anything other than blaming it on Brexit?

I'm not blaming it on brexit.

I made the VERY simple observation that the general malaise brought about by Covid battering the world's economies PLUS the added buggerance of brexit means difficult times for UK business. Not exactly rocket science. Personally I wouldn't plan beyond surviving until April/May. However it's very noticeable that all the "open the borders" brigade blame all the issues with redundancies etc on the current border restrictions without any proof at all.

If I was Mr Quayle I would pay close attention to any evidence of the border controls restricting business output.

If it was negligible, which I suspect, then I can ride it out until the virus is brought back under control elsewhere.

If it's having a serious impact then I would be forced to try and drill down to the issue and fix it within the current restraints if I could. If not then I would have to think of something else.

This idea people have that Mr Quayle's ego is somehow dependent on keeping the island clear of Covid is concerning. Because I don't know if it's true or not....

[thesultanofsheight]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I'm not blaming it on brexit.

I made the VERY simple observation that the general malaise brought about by Covid battering the world's economies PLUS the added buggerance of brexit means difficult times for UK business. Not exactly rocket science. Personally I wouldn't plan beyond surviving until April/May. However it's very noticeable that all the "open the borders" brigade blame all the issues with redundancies etc on the current border restrictions without any proof at all.

You really do sound quite angry. Capitalized letters too. Never a good look. So you’re an anti-Brexiteer but one who doesn’t support freer border movement for the people of the IOM? Did I get that right? So you support the concept of open borders, but just not here? 

[P.K.]

48 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I am not sure anyone elected you Chairman of this debate,  but that aside......

My point is that personal circumstances do matter and should influence policy.  If people are increasingly feeling isolated and cut off, the government should listen.

As for the economy, no economy exists in its own bubble.  It needs two way transactions with other economies, that's how it works and we should be very wary of thinking that we can continue in a bubble. 

With all the imprisonment of key workers, regardless of whether you think it right or wrong, how many companies do you think will start to say, no way are we sending any employees over to do anything, regardless of how crucial it is to your infrastructure/health service/railways, because we cannot carry the consequent cost of dealing with an employee imprisoned.  So you want a new bit of medical equipment? Bugger off and find some other sucker company who will charge you richly for that added risk of doing business with you. 

I'm not sure that sniping is a good idea, but that aside....

My point is that if as a government you have decisions to make if you had to take into account every faction, lobby group etc into account you would NEVER make a decision.

One size fits all is a great concept but when it's XXXL legislation it will fail the practicality test.

I asked for reasons why the borders should be opened and all I got back was nothing concrete in a financial sense but just that it doesn't suit certain particular personal circumstances.

If you can do better then fire away...