IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Out of the blue]

8 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Liverpool have given up.

By the turn of the New Year I expect the rest of the country will have too.

It is madness.

This is what the government are going to have to grapple with over the next few months. They may be able to close businesses, however the public buy in to restrictions isn't what it was, and the more restrictive and draconian they make them to ensure compliance, the more push back they will experience. it may well descend into an on, off, on, off cycle of restrictions that damage the morale and economy of the nation, that ultimately do not end up achieving their primary objective of saving the health of the nation. We all know that this cannot go on, but the politics is already kicking in with Keir breaking ranks, so leaving Boris with even less room for manoeuvre. I have never been so glad to live on the island (even during one of our lovely winters).  

 

[Cambon]

50 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Liverpool have given up.

By the turn of the New Year I expect the rest of the country will have too.

It is madness.

That is why they need a short sharp lockdown, to suppress the virus and prevent the health services being overwhelmed. It is nothing to do with stopping the virus. It is about slowing it. 

[Dave Hedgehog]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Technically its only a week, it is half term anyway. Could well be pointless though. 

There is a review after two weeks so it could go on for longer...

[Nom de plume]

41 minutes ago, Cambon said:

That is why they need a short sharp lockdown, to suppress the virus and prevent the health services being overwhelmed. It is nothing to do with stopping the virus. It is about slowing it. 

Stop it.

They haven’t even utilised the Nightingale hospitals yet!

A ‘circuit breaker’ as Starmer put it is just more bullshit.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

44 minutes ago, Cambon said:

That is why they need a short sharp lockdown, to suppress the virus and prevent the health services being overwhelmed. It is nothing to do with stopping the virus. It is about slowing it. 

What's the point?

It looks like a flawed strategy.   They'll spend years moving in and out of lockdowns destroying more lives and businesses along the way as folk get progressively less compliant.

Won't be long before riots commence I suspect.

[Cambon]

15 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Stop it.

They haven’t even utilised the Nightingale hospitals yet!

A ‘circuit breaker’ as Starmer put it is just more bullshit.

Yet. And, that is the key point. 

[Lxxx]

59 minutes ago, Cambon said:

That is why they need a short sharp lockdown, to suppress the virus and prevent the health services being overwhelmed. It is nothing to do with stopping the virus. It is about slowing it. 

You're usually pretty spot on with your comments on here Cambon but on this you're wrong. 

It's been proven by many scientific studies now that lockdowns have little impact and indeed even the WHO has come out against them recently. We need to stop viewing 'health' with the blinkers on. Covid isn't the only show in town; mental health is off the charts, suicide is up massively, cancer patients are dying horrible, preventable deaths in their own beds not being able to access treatments which otherwise could have helped them beat it.

Lockdowns are another excuse to put everything else on hold and destroy more livelihoods and lives in a vain attempt to slow down a virus, which is akin to using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  

[Roger Mexico]

38 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Stop it.

They haven’t even utilised the Nightingale hospitals yet!

They can never use the Nightingale hospitals - they don't have the staff to run them.  They never have had.  Why do you think they were barely used in the Spring, even though the other hospitals were overwhelmed?   Like practically everything else this Tory government has done in the crisis they were all for show, because this is a government that only knows how to do propaganda, not how to run things.

[Nom de plume]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

They can never use the Nightingale hospitals - they don't have the staff to run them.  They never have had.  Why do you think they were barely used in the Spring, even though the other hospitals were overwhelmed?   Like practically everything else this Tory government has done in the crisis they were all for show, because this is a government that only knows how to do propaganda, not how to run things.

You don’t know that.

Crazy allegation to make.

[Roger Mexico]

25 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

We need to stop viewing 'health' with the blinkers on. Covid isn't the only show in town; mental health is off the charts, suicide is up massively, cancer patients are dying horrible, preventable deaths in their own beds not being able to access treatments which otherwise could have helped them beat it.

And if the hospitals were crammed with Covid patients, how do you think that would help in the treatment of other medical conditions?  I suppose it might kill off some of the cancer patients quicker if they catch it, but I suspect that's not what you meant.

This is magical thinking again.  A belief that is somehow we go back to doing things the way they were before the virus appeared, then the virus will vanish.  It's not going to work.

And after lockdown worked in the Spring to reduce the number of cases on the UK to a much lower level (and eliminate it entirely in the Isle of Man) perhaps you'd like to link to all these 'scientific' studies that tell us it made no difference.

[Gladys]

23 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

And if the hospitals were crammed with Covid patients, how do you think that would help in the treatment of other medical conditions?  I suppose it might kill off some of the cancer patients quicker if they catch it, but I suspect that's not what you meant.

This is magical thinking again.  A belief that is somehow we go back to doing things the way they were before the virus appeared, then the virus will vanish.  It's not going to work.

And after lockdown worked in the Spring to reduce the number of cases on the UK to a much lower level (and eliminate it entirely in the Isle of Man) perhaps you'd like to link to all these 'scientific' studies that tell us it made no difference.

Nobody sane believes the virus will vanish, but that we need to be better at living with it, rather than the somewhat knee-jerk and terribly damaging sledgehammer measures being taken now.  If people are resistant to lock downs, they are not going to work anyway. 

[Lxxx]

24 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

And if the hospitals were crammed with Covid patients, how do you think that would help in the treatment of other medical conditions?  I suppose it might kill off some of the cancer patients quicker if they catch it, but I suspect that's not what you meant.

This is magical thinking again.  A belief that is somehow we go back to doing things the way they were before the virus appeared, then the virus will vanish.  It's not going to work.

And after lockdown worked in the Spring to reduce the number of cases on the UK to a much lower level (and eliminate it entirely in the Isle of Man) perhaps you'd like to link to all these 'scientific' studies that tell us it made no difference.

Hospitals never were overflowing with Covid patients and we now have data which suggests complete lockdowns do more harm than good. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1

No-one is suggesting going back to do things the way they were before. Sensible social measures, safeguarding the vulnerable and prioritising health services all have a positive impact in how we deal with it but we are now in a better position to prepare than we were in March. 

We now need to appreciate that we need an economy to come back to and with the understanding of fatality rates and demographics and the subsequent management of risk there's no need to plunge more and more lives into misery than is necessary.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

And if the hospitals were crammed with Covid patients, how do you think that would help in the treatment of other medical conditions?  I suppose it might kill off some of the cancer patients quicker if they catch it, but I suspect that's not what you meant.

This is magical thinking again.  A belief that is somehow we go back to doing things the way they were before the virus appeared, then the virus will vanish.  It's not going to work.

And after lockdown worked in the Spring to reduce the number of cases on the UK to a much lower level (and eliminate it entirely in the Isle of Man) perhaps you'd like to link to all these 'scientific' studies that tell us it made no difference.

 

It's about making a significantly better difference than if a differing approach was taken.

Perhaps really the only way is to lock up everyone for 3 weeks.  Deliver food parcels etc.  Literally close down everything.  Stop all movement except for emergency services, police and hospital staff. 

The new lock down measures won't do much other than lower some numbers before it all kicks off again.  Rinse. Repeat.

[wrighty]

16 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Hospitals never were overflowing with Covid patients and we now have data which suggests complete lockdowns do more harm than good. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1

No-one is suggesting going back to do things the way they were before. Sensible social measures, safeguarding the vulnerable and prioritising health services all have a positive impact in how we deal with it but we are now in a better position to prepare than we were in March. 

We now need to appreciate that we need an economy to come back to and with the understanding of fatality rates and demographics and the subsequent management of risk there's no need to plunge more and more lives into misery than is necessary.

I'm going to have to have a proper look at that paper, which was uploaded as a pre-print (ie not peer reviewed) back in April.  Had its thesis been accepted it would have been published by now.  My gut reaction is that it's probably rubbish.  Having said that, I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, but using that paper as evidence may not be the way to go.

[Flyingfemme]

And that's the problem; you cannot lock down entirely. Way too many people are "key workers" and way too many services are required to keep life, as we know it in the 21st century, going. All the while all these people and services are going it is pretty pointless to "lock down" the rest. We need to develop new manners and habits to protect ourselves from more diseases than just covid and we need new standards for the things we require in this life. More space, better facilities and the ability to live without being cheek-by-jowl with our neighbours all the time. Poverty and ill health make you vulnerable to all sorts of things, not just covid. But nothing of that scale can happen instantly and destroying what we have in the hope that something better might come along is just wasteful and cruel.