IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Neil Down]

23 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

China has been well on top of ways to deal with this virus from the very start (apart from letting Wuhan whistleblowers die from it.)

It leads me to believe that a) they are massively massaging their statistics, and/or b) knowing how to deal with virus escapes from Wuhan, because they get them all the time????

[wrighty]

38 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

You didn’t read or just dismissed this Roger?

https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

Are you also dismissing suggestions that if you are under 75, contract Covid presenting symptoms, your chances of dying are 0.001%?

Yet Governments all over Europe are systematically plunging millions into the depths of poverty, denying patients urgent medical treatments, inflicting untold mental health issues on the most vulnerable & worse.

To really make you wonder, China, with a population of close to 1.5 billion people has only recorded 4,634 deaths and has two of the most densely populated cities in the world.

You don’t find all that a bit ‘off’?

 

I’ve read it. The whole article has a very off-putting, conspiratorial, flat-earth, climate-change-denying style. Whereas some of what he writes has merit - T-cell immunity, lower IFR etc - he’s definitely skewing the figures to suit his own ‘SAGE are all incompetent’ agenda. 
 

The reality is that the second wave is coming - at least in the NW. ITU beds filling up, something like 600+ covid cases admitted to Liverpool hospitals right now, they’re on the verge of cancelling elective work, and we’re having to come up with contingency plans for how to deal with non-covid stuff here that ordinarily gets sent across, if they can’t cope. 
 

On the plus side, we’re better at treating it now. It may be slightly less virulent than in April (jury’s out on that one) and effective, and more importantly ineffective treatments, are known about. 

[slinkydevil]

23 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I think I'm gonna take some mushrooms

 

3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I feel much better now. Some of you on here would benefit from doing the same. Well, all of you really.

 

2 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Eh?

[monasqueen]

Going back to Jersey versus Guernsey, I find the Jersey Evening Post article on the topic of Guernsey's new Chief Minister rather amusing!

As they say, "the two islands took different very approaches in response to the Covid-19 outbreak"

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

Going back to Jersey versus Guernsey, I find the Jersey Evening Post article on the topic of Guernsey's new Chief Minister rather amusing!

As they say, "the two islands took different very approaches in response to the Covid-19 outbreak"

I wonder if he’s said anything about HQ. Ferbrache was GSY chief minister before Gav, so it’s a come back.

[monasqueen]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I wonder if he’s said anything about HQ. Ferbrache was GSY chief minister before Gav, so it’s a come back.

I understand he has a nickname locally - Furbrush 

[Nom de plume]

35 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I’ve read it. The whole article has a very off-putting, conspiratorial, flat-earth, climate-change-denying style. Whereas some of what he writes has merit - T-cell immunity, lower IFR etc - he’s definitely skewing the figures to suit his own ‘SAGE are all incompetent’ agenda. 
 

The reality is that the second wave is coming - at least in the NW. ITU beds filling up, something like 600+ covid cases admitted to Liverpool hospitals right now, they’re on the verge of cancelling elective work, and we’re having to come up with contingency plans for how to deal with non-covid stuff here that ordinarily gets sent across, if they can’t cope. 
 

On the plus side, we’re better at treating it now. It may be slightly less virulent than in April (jury’s out on that one) and effective, and more importantly ineffective treatments, are known about. 

Where do you sit on the longer term damage that’s being done?

ie, the suffering & misery that is already unfolding on millions.

We are beyond the tipping point. 

[John Wright]

11 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

I understand he has a nickname locally - Furbrush 

Bizarre result considering Gav got the largest popular vote, over 50% of the electorate voted for him.

[Banker]

18 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I wonder if he’s said anything about HQ. Ferbrache was GSY chief minister before Gav, so it’s a come back.

Yes , hide the pies if he visits 😀

[wrighty]

32 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Where do you sit on the longer term damage that’s being done?

ie, the suffering & misery that is already unfolding on millions.

We are beyond the tipping point. 

Here or across?

Here we’ve got it pretty good. It is difficult for some not being able to freely travel, but it would be worse if we started filling up Noble’s with covid cases, and shutting down businesses again. For the time being I don’t think there’s much else to be done over here. 
 

In the UK I’m torn between the circuit-breaker idea, and just thinking they may as well crack-on. All the half-arsed measures over the past few months have got them where exactly? The paddle-free brown smelly river, that’s where. Adopt the Swedish model and go for herd immunity, but expect a deadly winter which might completely collapse the NHS. Tough choices. 

[TheTeapot]

Here's an article about Sweden people might like to read, although with minds already made up and views inflexible I doubt people will.

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

Edited October 16, 2020 by TheTeapot

[Nom de plume]

16 minutes ago, wrighty said:

Here or across?

Here we’ve got it pretty good. It is difficult for some not being able to freely travel, but it would be worse if we started filling up Noble’s with covid cases, and shutting down businesses again. For the time being I don’t think there’s much else to be done over here. 
 

In the UK I’m torn between the circuit-breaker idea, and just thinking they may as well crack-on. All the half-arsed measures over the past few months have got them where exactly? The paddle-free brown smelly river, that’s where. Adopt the Swedish model and go for herd immunity, but expect a deadly winter which might completely collapse the NHS. Tough choices. 

I agree 100% on here currently. There’s not a lot we can do until the New Year. At least we get to enjoy a Christmas of sorts though many families will not be together.

In regards the U.K., I think we have to see how the next three months pan out. If there’s no significant improvement then I’m of the opinion it really is time to crack on & try as best they can to protect those that need it.

A dreadful dilemma but ultimately there is a whole lot of horror unfolding long term if these series of lockdowns / restrictions continue.

I want my kids to grow up in a society that has a chance not worse than the late 70’s.

[Out of the blue]

17 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

I agree 100% on here currently. There’s not a lot we can do until the New Year. At least we get to enjoy a Christmas of sorts though many families will not be together.

In regards the U.K., I think we have to see how the next three months pan out. If there’s no significant improvement then I’m of the opinion it really is time to crack on & try as best they can to protect those that need it.

A dreadful dilemma but ultimately there is a whole lot of horror unfolding long term if these series of lockdowns / restrictions continue.

I want my kids to grow up in a society that has a chance not worse than the late 70’s.

The government can put on more and more restrictions on business/people, but if a significant minority do not comply, the government will have to be pragmatic and either go full on authoritarian or let everyone get on with it. Boris and the tories are libertarians so I bet that the rules will become merely guidance and then we watch and wait...The public compliance is the thing to watch. I feel that it is starting to falter.

[pongo]

10 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

Boris and the tories are libertarians 

I don't get the impression that Boris is a libertarian. Certainly not economically.

I see him as much more patrician. And he described himself as a "Brexity Heseltine".

Also - events are pretty much running things now.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by pongo

[Black Mirror]

2 hours ago, wrighty said:

I’ve read it. The whole article has a very off-putting, conspiratorial, flat-earth, climate-change-denying style. Whereas some of what he writes has merit - T-cell immunity, lower IFR etc - he’s definitely skewing the figures to suit his own ‘SAGE are all incompetent’ agenda. The reality is that the second wave is coming - at least in the NW. ITU beds filling up, something like 600+ covid cases admitted to Liverpool hospitals right now, they’re on the verge of cancelling elective work, and we’re having to come up with contingency plans for how to deal with non-covid stuff here that ordinarily gets sent across, if they can’t cope. On the plus side, we’re better at treating it now. It may be slightly less virulent than in April (jury’s out on that one) and effective, and more importantly ineffective treatments, are known about. 

 

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

Where do you sit on the longer term damage that’s being done?

ie, the suffering & misery that is already unfolding on millions.

We are beyond the tipping point. 

 

The lockdown sceptics article pointed out by Nom the plume is not written in a language appropriate for a scientific paper; the BMJ would reject it for sure. One does not write on those "official" journals to disparage scientists with different opinions.

However, its main conclusions cannot be dismissed solely on that ground. There are essential points made regarding the fatality rate (0.2% in the most authoritative reference) and the percentage of people who may be susceptible to infection that have plenty of verification in published papers that are credible.

There are hundreds of the most qualified academics and practitioners that have signed the Great Barrington Declaration; one cannot just sweep it under the carpet.

And there is the example of some very civilised countries that have adopted liberal forms of social distancing based on voluntary compliance and that have had a much better pandemic than the UK and did not see the need to go into crazy isolation from the world like this nutty island.

Covid-19 is nowhere as dangerous as implied by our draconian policies. It was never going to produce as many fatalities as the Imperial College's scenarios. The local lockdowns currently underway in the UK will not have much impact; only circa 5% of infections are coming from the hospitality industry (pubs, restaurants etc).