wrighty Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Lxxx said: No-one isolates sufficiently living in the same house. If the virus is as transmissable as they say it is then living under the same roof as people who freely come and go, breathing the same air, going about their business there is bound to be a sharing of viral particles at some stage. It's impossible not to. Government and health experts recognise this but we have a halfway house policy to enable society to function. It's worked well so far. Wrong. Antibody studies here suggest only 16% of close household contacts of covid cases got it. And many of them were probably before we knew so much about it. It’s not that transmissable. Aside from the fact that my son doesn’t live with me, so there’s no worry for anybody coming to my clinic in December in any case, it’s perfectly possible to socially distance in a household setting, and healthcare staff know better than most how to do so - no staff got infected with covid from looking after patients at Noble’s. So despite the suggestions in this thread that hospital staff in particular should be kept separate from their returning offspring, I’d suggest it’s not necessary to make special provision for us. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said: Sometimes not straight forward - I know of one student coming back from a high risk area due to Uni sending students back early - both parents key workers in positions which require much daily face to face interaction and two siblings in the same household one in full time employment one in full time education - it would be impossible for contact tracing if required and due to size of family versus size of of property difficult to adhere to the guidelines of cleaning facilities etc. That's the sort of scenario that worries me. The suggestion of using hotels to self-isolate is a good one, but of course the sort of families that haven't lots of spare space, extra bathrooms and so on are also going to be the sort that can't afford to pay for a hotel for a fortnight. Maybe the government should organise something as it did for the homeless. In any case during last week's press conference they were talking about possible changes to the nonsense rule whereby one member of a household was self-isolating when the others weren't. So some sort of system may have to be set up in any case. They've already extended support for the hospitality sector into the winter, so it may be less costly than at first sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mirror Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: Anyway, it wasn't long ago that SAGE were warning of 100 deaths a day over the course of the winter. There's no way to look at things other than it's getting worse. The question is how much worse will it get? 7-day average: Date Tests processed Positive Deaths Positive % 06/10/2020 261,882 11,994 53 4.58 13/10/2020 265,018 14,973 82 5.65 Today 293,220 18,235 136 6.22 There maybe a second wave of Covid, but not a second wave of deaths. Right now in the UK, the total number of deaths from flu, pneumonia and Covid is running at about 1,600 per week; pretty much the average of the past five years. Precisely, we are running at 1.5% above average of past five years, as concerns the total from respiratory illnesses, which is quite little excess mortality. These are ONS data, just google it. What is to be considered a Covid death, and what it isn't, is also a matter of genuine argument among doctors and scientists (when they don't do politics). 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, wrighty said: Aside from the fact that my son doesn’t live with me, so there’s no worry for anybody coming to my clinic in December in any case, it’s perfectly possible to socially distance in a household setting, and healthcare staff know better than most how to do so - no staff got infected with covid from looking after patients at Noble’s. So despite the suggestions in this thread that hospital staff in particular should be kept separate from their returning offspring, I’d suggest it’s not necessary to make special provision for us. Completely agree everyone takes their own risk based approach and very very few people don’t manage it all properly or take unnecessary risks. The people kicking up about the students and the fact they won’t self-isolate (in their totally unasked for opinion) are just hysterical idiots who believe all the right wing anti-student crap published in the Daily Mail. They are trying to force our governments hand on this though which frankly is fucking pathetic. If you don’t like the negligible extra risks you’re totally free to stay inside your own homes for the whole Xmas period and 100% protect yourselves from the world you miserable fucks. Edited October 20, 2020 by thesultanofsheight 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 26,000 excess non COVID related deaths in peoples homes so far this year. Sure enough people will be along to say those people would have died anyway. The same people who fail to take that same point into account when looking at figures for COVID deaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Banker said: Yeah , not everyone wants their mother in law in house for 2 weeks just before Xmas!! or ever. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Lxxx said: No-one isolates sufficiently living in the same house. If the virus is as transmissable as they say it is then living under the same roof as people who freely come and go, breathing the same air, going about their business there is bound to be a sharing of viral particles at some stage. It's impossible not to. Government and health experts recognise this but we have a halfway house policy to enable society to function. It's worked well so far. The scaremongering has got you bad hasn’t it? It’s really not that easy to catch. Plenty of people who share a bed and bodily fluids don’t even get it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, trmpton said: 26,000 excess non COVID related deaths in peoples homes so far this year. Sure enough people will be along to say those people would have died anyway. The same people who fail to take that same point into account when looking at figures for COVID deaths At least half of those died in car crashes in their house. Am I doing this right? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 37 minutes ago, wrighty said: Wrong. Antibody studies here suggest only 16% of close household contacts of covid cases got it. And many of them were probably before we knew so much about it. It’s not that transmissable. Aside from the fact that my son doesn’t live with me, so there’s no worry for anybody coming to my clinic in December in any case, it’s perfectly possible to socially distance in a household setting, and healthcare staff know better than most how to do so - no staff got infected with covid from looking after patients at Noble’s. So despite the suggestions in this thread that hospital staff in particular should be kept separate from their returning offspring, I’d suggest it’s not necessary to make special provision for us. That’s kind of my point. It’s not as transmissible as we we are being told and why the use of masks is largely just to make people feel better, as the World Health Organisation told us right at the start of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Knocked down by a bus. Damn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: At least half of those died in car crashes in their house. Am I doing this right? You are showing you don’t have a credible response I am also on a UK forum where a regular poster was unfortunate enough to lose two relatives to COVID between March and May. He posted yesterday that both deaths have now been changed to show COVID wasn’t a contributor. I am convinced that when we look back at this in 24 months with real accurate statistics, a lot of people will feel very stupid for all the panic and exaggeration of COVID deaths while ignoring all the other consequences of lockdown and lack of treatment for other conditions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, trmpton said: The scaremongering has got you bad hasn’t it? It’s really not that easy to catch. Plenty of people who share a bed and bodily fluids don’t even get it If you have read any of my posts you’ll know I am the opposite of what you have described. Which is why I said ‘if it is as transmissible as they say it is.’ It clearly isn’t. It's refreshing that our health professionals don’t read from the same script as the ones in the UK. It appears we base our recommendations on actual data and not whatever political agenda they are pushing across. Edited October 20, 2020 by Lxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, trmpton said: You are showing you don’t have a credible response I am also on a UK forum where a regular poster was unfortunate enough to lose two relatives to COVID between March and May. He posted yesterday that both deaths have now been changed to show COVID wasn’t a contributor. I am convinced that when we look back at this in 24 months with real accurate statistics, a lot of people will feel very stupid for all the panic and exaggeration of COVID deaths while ignoring all the other consequences of lockdown and lack of treatment for other conditions. Er. Righto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, trmpton said: You are showing you don’t have a credible response I am also on a UK forum where a regular poster was unfortunate enough to lose two relatives to COVID between March and May. He posted yesterday that both deaths have now been changed to show COVID wasn’t a contributor. I am convinced that when we look back at this in 24 months with real accurate statistics, a lot of people will feel very stupid for all the panic and exaggeration of COVID deaths while ignoring all the other consequences of lockdown and lack of treatment for other conditions. Very comforting then for the thousands of people who could not even be with their relatives while that died very obscene deaths then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 minute ago, the stinking enigma said: Er. Righto. Good one. Possibly your most sensible, well researched and convincing post yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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