IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Scotty]

TSOS, I wonder if Wrighty had described Covid deaths on ventilators as “ obscene”, would you post your trademark “ confused” emoji ? You removed several last night, yet have started again. Whatever floats your boat.

[Gladys]

15 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Very comforting then for the thousands of people who could not even be with their relatives while that died very obscene deaths then. 

This has been an a discussion point since the spring.  At the end of life, what is more humane, isolation from relatives or isolation from a virus?  It is a very hard one to answer. 

[pongo]

17 minutes ago, trmpton said:

I am convinced that when we look back at this in 24 months with real accurate statistics, a lot of people will feel very stupid for all the panic and exaggeration of COVID deaths while ignoring all the other consequences of lockdown and lack of treatment for other conditions.

100% - huge scam like decimalisation, the moon landings and climate change. Woke liberals, communists and the global elites.

[thesultanofsheight]

9 minutes ago, Scotty said:

TSOS, I wonder if Wrighty had described Covid deaths on ventilators as “ obscene”, would you post your trademark “ confused” emoji ? You removed several last night, yet have started again. Whatever floats your boat.

Meltdown Mary is starting early tonight. I really don't know what your problem is you pitiful ranting loon but I and others I’m sure really don’t want or need to listen to it night, after night, after night. Nobody is biting. Nobody cares. Take your insecurities somewhere else for Gods sake. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[trmpton]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

100% - huge scam like decimalisation, the moon landings and climate change. Woke liberals, communists and the global elites.

So you think the figures are completely accurate (excess deaths from COVID are still about the same as flu figures in UK for 2017-18 by the way, even with the questionable reporting).

You think the response to date is justified, and you don’t believe that 26,000 extra people over the five year rolling average have died at home?

[Scotty]

3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Meltdown Mary is starting early tonight. I really don't know what your problem is you pitiful ranting loon but I and others I’m sure really dint want or need to listen to it night, after night, after night. Nobody is biting. Nobody cares. 

I just think you are very disrespectful in your posts and ignore those who have lost family. You belittle their grief and virtually mock their mourning with your and Bankers posts about it being almost trivial. I assume you have no family or even emotions.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Scotty

[Scotty]

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I just think you are very disrespectful in your posts and ignore those who have lost family. You belittle their grief and virtually mock their mourning with your and Bankers posts about it being almost trivial. I assume you have no family or even emotions.

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Scotty

[thesultanofsheight]

9 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I just think you are very disrespectful in your posts and ignore those who have lost family. You belittle their grief and virtually mock their mourning with your and Bankers posts about it being almost trivial. I assume you have no family or even emotions.

Nobody is biting you big baby. Go and cry somewhere else. I said nothing of the sort as you well know. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[doc.fixit]

When you guys have finished arguing and baiting each other shall we get back to the subject which sadly, in my opinion is based on comparing results based on a massive variety of calculating methods, therefore most arguments are spurious because the figures cannot be logically compared...but, I've already said this twice before.

[Roger Mexico]

43 minutes ago, trmpton said:

26,000 excess non COVID related deaths in peoples homes so far this year.

Sure enough people will be along to say those people would have died anyway.  The same people who fail to take that same point into account when looking at figures for COVID deaths

You're misunderstanding this (as have a lot of other people).  This isn't so much about whether people would have died but where. 

As it happens today's weekly analysis of death registration (which has been discussing this for some time) has some useful graphics:

As you can see that the excess deaths at home come from two sources.  During the first wave of the pandemic there was a peak caused by people either dying at home from Covid[1] or from other causes which they couldn't get into hospital for, because the hospitals were full.  But since then, from about the start of May, there have been excess deaths at home which have been countered by there being fewer deaths than expected in hospital.  No one seems quite sure why this is, but it's clearly mostly not extra deaths but the same deaths happening in different places.

Incidentally this graphic also shows how untrue the "They would have died anyway" line was about the elderly.  If it had been you would have seen a big drop in care home deaths over the summer to compensate for the peak in the spring.  There's very little there.

 

[1]  This is shown as 2561 to date, but this was certainly an underestimate especially in the first few weeks of the pandemic where the figures suggest there were a few thousand Covid deaths put down as influenza/pneumonia, presumably due to lack of test availability and unfamiliarity with symptoms.  These are more likely to have been at home.

[trmpton]

4 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

You're misunderstanding this (as have a lot of other people).  This isn't so much about whether people would have died but where.

Not misunderstanding anything.

It’s an example of how statistics can be manipulated to make whatever point you want.  Like the COVID deaths.

[the stinking enigma]

Er. Righto.

[thesultanofsheight]

10 minutes ago, trmpton said:

Not misunderstanding anything.

It’s an example of how statistics can be manipulated to make whatever point you want.  Like the COVID deaths.

I was just going to post similar. No disrespect to Roger. But as Mark Twain once said: There are lies, damn, lies, and statistics! 

[Roger Mexico]

6 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I was just going to post similar. No disrespect to Roger. But as Mark Twain once said: There are lies, damn, lies, and statistics! 

It's amazing how many people only come to this conclusion once the figures that they have just been quoting have been disproved (which incidentally was Mark Twain's point)

[Gladys]

26 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

You're misunderstanding this (as have a lot of other people).  This isn't so much about whether people would have died but where. 

As it happens today's weekly analysis of death registration (which has been discussing this for some time) has some useful graphics:

As you can see that the excess deaths at home come from two sources.  

What happened on 4 September?