IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Cambon said:

As much as you are correct about the airlines and much of the tourist industry, for every business closing, new ones are opening. I personally don't just see the negative. I see the opportunities. There for the taking, for the brave. 

What about the not so brave just trying to provide for their families? 

[Lxxx]

1 hour ago, Cambon said:

As much as you are correct about the airlines and much of the tourist industry, for every business closing, new ones are opening. I personally don't just see the negative. I see the opportunities. There for the taking, for the brave. 

Poor form that.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

He's utterly clueless with those sort of comments.

[Out of the blue]

2 hours ago, Cambon said:

As much as you are correct about the airlines and much of the tourist industry, for every business closing, new ones are opening. I personally don't just see the negative. I see the opportunities. There for the taking, for the brave. 

There will be positives to this mess and also opportunities, but there will be equally a lot of unnecessary damage, a lot of which could have been avoided. The western world will end up doing through necessity, what it should have done as soon as the initial lock down had eased, open up, keep going, whilst looking after our old and vulnerable. Currently, it is the old and vulnerable who are going to suffer in the long run, the brave would have prospered Covid or not.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

11 hours ago, Lxxx said:

It’s not ‘well known’ at all.

Top medical professionals at the start of the year like Dr Fauci and even down to the not so top professionals like Dr Hillary Jones on GMTV were telling us daily that masks were essentially useless. Stopping a few droplets out of the much larger number per breath might make you feel better but in the bigger picture they offer no real protection whatsoever considering the size of viruses and numbers involved. Which makes perfect sense. Sadly the whole thing became politicised and science, as ever these days, became secondary to this.

it saddened me when I was across last month to see old people clearly struggling round a supermarket, a large number of which will have a respiratory system that is not optimal and doing themselves more harm than good with this contraption over their airways.

I do hope our government don’t succumb to this madness once the Facebook illiterates start howling at the moon to shut us off from the rest of the world until 2030.

So tell me, why do surgeons wear masks? I doubt the NHS would spend swathes of money on aesthetics. Why do ambulance crews don masks when dealing with potentially infectious patients? If you're buying into this 'oh masks make you ill' nonsense, think how many people work all day every day in quite adverse environments in full-face respirators. Breathing through particle filters is far harder than an old t-shirt.

We can find a well reviewed, cited paper from a decade ago looking at the effectiveness of masks if you like: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05/core-reader

Note that the influenza virus is in a similar order of magnitude size wise, Covid19 coming in at 125nm, versus 80-120nm for influenza.

One of the key motivations for the 'don't wear a mask' came from the already large surge in demand for PPE. The UK didn't exactly have a fantastic stockpile.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

Can you find any evidence for health concerns arising from mask use, or is it something you saw real facts on on Facebook from old Jim down the pub?

Edited October 25, 2020 by AcousticallyChallenged

[Apple]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:32 PM, Apple said:

If you do go out, please can you get me a Big Mac before you get arrested. No sauces. Thanks.

@ Duck of Atholl - Thanks. Chips too salty, again.  

[Flyingfemme]

12 hours ago, Cambon said:

As much as you are correct about the airlines and much of the tourist industry, for every business closing, new ones are opening. I personally don't just see the negative. I see the opportunities. There for the taking, for the brave. 

You wouldn’t be saying that if you had spent years, or decades, building a business in the expectation that it would keep you in your old age and it was now going down the pan. The next stage will be homelessness as banks snatch homes that had been pledged against business finance.

[trmpton]

4 minutes ago, Flyingfemme said:

You wouldn’t be saying that if you had spent years, or decades, building a business in the expectation that it would keep you in your old age and it was now going down the pan. The next stage will be homelessness as banks snatch homes that had been pledged against business finance.

I agree there are more businesses that I think a lot of people realise that I really don’t think will still be here in spring.  Most through no fault of their own, just a simple complete drying up of the income.  Don’t be thinking these are all in hospitality of day care either although some are related (would you fancy running a Cattery when no one is travelling)

However Cambon is right that some clever people have adapted an existing business or started a new one which capitalises on recent forced changes in our behaviour and spending, and good luck to the for having the balls to do it.

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, trmpton said:

I agree there are more businesses that I think a lot of people realise that I really don’t think will still be here in spring.  Most through no fault of their own, just a simple complete drying up of the income.  Don’t be thinking these are all in hospitality of day care either although some are related (would you fancy running a Cattery when no one is travelling)

However Cambon is right that some clever people have adapted an existing business or started a new one which capitalises on recent forced changes in our behaviour and spending, and good luck to the for having the balls to do it.

True, but I doubt we are seeing a one to one replacement of business, (per Cambon) nor will we do for some time.  There will be people taking opportunities and adapting, but many will not able to given that their lifelong line of employment or business has disappeared. 

[trmpton]

5 minutes ago, Gladys said:

True, but I doubt we are seeing a one to one replacement of business, (per Cambon) nor will we do for some time.  There will be people taking opportunities and adapting, but many will not able to given that their lifelong line of employment or business has disappeared. 

I agree.  Definitely more closing than opening and more jobs being lost that created.

But unemployment is down they cry.

Yeah it is.  I personally know six people who went on there in the last few months who are no longer signed on so I guess that’s a success as seen a positive economic factor.

1 went back to London
1 has gone to Boutnemouth

2 to wales

1 stayed as he met someone here and has managed to get a job with her Dad which pays half what he was used to

Dont know where the other went but I know they have gone back off Island. 

[Happier diner]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:30 PM, Feelslike said:

As a society, we do not allow a virus with this type of consequence to spread unabated. The diseases are treated, quarantines imposed and vaccines administered where applicable. Schools are closed and ships quarantined at sea when there's a norovirus outbreak. If there's a meningitis infection in a school, kids are given vaccines or boosters. Quarantining to protect everyone else is not a new phenomenon, neither is limiting the risk of infection by reducing contact or exposure. And they did that 50-200 years ago when they didn't know how these things were transmitted or where they came from. 

The issue with trying to achieve this type of herd immunity - by building up antibodies from catching the disease - is that the vulnerable are still vulnerable. The people most at risk still aren't protected adequately from it and if someone's Nan in a nursing home gets it, it could still wipe out half the home. The chance of them catching may be reduced but if they catch it, the end result is still the same. 

How long will it take an adequate % of the population to get to the requisite level of immunity? 

Months in poor countries with no measures, years in most countries where the spread is controlled, never on the isle of man!

[immortalpuppet]

I was speaking to a construction worker at the weekend who has completely cashed in due to the pandemic. They are turning away work and have some fairly substantial contracts in place due to people hiring locals.

It’s likely only a limited market but at least some are thriving in the current climate.

[Lxxx]

9 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

So tell me, why do surgeons wear masks? I doubt the NHS would spend swathes of money on aesthetics. Why do ambulance crews don masks when dealing with potentially infectious patients? If you're buying into this 'oh masks make you ill' nonsense, think how many people work all day every day in quite adverse environments in full-face respirators. Breathing through particle filters is far harder than an old t-shirt.

We can find a well reviewed, cited paper from a decade ago looking at the effectiveness of masks if you like: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05/core-reader

Note that the influenza virus is in a similar order of magnitude size wise, Covid19 coming in at 125nm, versus 80-120nm for influenza.

One of the key motivations for the 'don't wear a mask' came from the already large surge in demand for PPE. The UK didn't exactly have a fantastic stockpile.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

Can you find any evidence for health concerns arising from mask use, or is it something you saw real facts on on Facebook from old Jim down the pub?

Surgeons wear masks as they are dealing with open wounds, pretty basic observation.

I'm not saying masks make you ill, I'm saying the efficacy for everyday use here on the island is debatable. However if you already have a sub optimal respiratory system it absolutely wouldn't do you any good at all to be covering your mouth and nose for long periods. As evidenced by the fact people with those kind of concerns are advised not to wear them and are justifiably exempt from their use on public transport. 

[Lxxx]

28 minutes ago, trmpton said:

I agree.  Definitely more closing than opening and more jobs being lost that created.

But unemployment is down they cry.

Yeah it is.  I personally know six people who went on there in the last few months who are no longer signed on so I guess that’s a success as seen a positive economic factor.

1 went back to London
1 has gone to Boutnemouth

2 to wales

1 stayed as he met someone here and has managed to get a job with her Dad which pays half what he was used to

Dont know where the other went but I know they have gone back off Island. 

This is the concern. With travel restrictions a lot of people will be assessing their lifestyle now and if this is going to carry on for much longer then they may well feel that being stuck across on a much larger island offers a lot more options for a better lifestyle than being stuck on a tiny one with a fraction of the opportunities and amenities.

[Beelzebub3]

2 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

This is the concern. With travel restrictions a lot of people will be assessing their lifestyle now and if this is going to carry on for much longer then they may well feel that being stuck across on a much larger island offers a lot more options for a better lifestyle than being stuck on a tiny one with a fraction of the opportunities and amenities.

With house price's through the roof now is the time to put up the for sale sign and get out with a load of dosh and set up elsewhere.