Black Mirror Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, BenFairfax said: That how democratic society works, even in Plato's Republic we have discussion of rights in individual versus greatest good for community. I.e. these ideas/conflicts are not new. In case of COVID the issue boils down to belief/ethics that people do not have right to infect others with a virus which at present is no cure and potentially terminal. Modern medical science also details the mechanism and how one individuals could infect others and hence have regulations as they stand. Back in 1918 pandemic the same democratic and ethical principles applied but what was known then as "Theory of Germs" was new and not widely accepted. As such the (lack of) rules based on medical science of the day led to uncontrolled outbreaks. Without deemster sending people to prison and buffeted from UK by sea in my mind is what prevented IoM being in same situation as UK finds itself now. Your version of democracy is the one in which the majority, i.e., those who are scared by the virus and want to lockdown, is allowed to stamp a boot on the face of the minority, i.e., those who are concerned about civil liberties and the impact of lockdown on their livelihoods. You could generalise to the problem of distribution of wealth, that wider confrontation within human society. It is not going to end well. Governance with totalitarian powers never ends well. There are countless historical examples. I just read this paper on human governance and the balance of interest between public and private: https://aeon.co/essays/hegel-and-the-history-of-human-nature And as concerns IOM Covid response, I wouldn't dignify it with too many philosophical arguments. Dumb-witted is a more fitting characterisation. As well as short-sighted and missing the wider picture. Edited November 2, 2020 by Black Mirror 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, Black Mirror said: Your version of democracy is the one in which the majority [...] is allowed to stamp a boot on the face of the minority, Err... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Questions really need to be asked about our governments denial program. 2 cases announced today, one of whom is in hospital, but not for covid. According to the gov dashboard, 0 cases in hospital. Goes to Gladys' what is a case question, you have a positive test case in hospital that isn't a case. Fuck off. This is a bollocks situation, totally in keeping with the head in the sand approach. Sort it out and stop lying David. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Questions really need to be asked about our governments denial program. 2 cases announced today, one of whom is in hospital, but not for covid. According to the gov dashboard, 0 cases in hospital. Goes to Gladys' what is a case question, you have a positive test case in hospital that isn't a case. Fuck off. This is a bollocks situation, totally in keeping with the head in the sand approach. Sort it out and stop lying David. They aren’t in hospital. It was a pre admission screening test so no lies being told. Edited November 2, 2020 by trmpton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Questions really need to be asked about our governments denial program. 2 cases announced today, one of whom is in hospital, but not for covid. Returned from the UK where they were away for treatment allegedly. So likely a hospital transfer where they’re now self isolating at home having left hospital. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/two-with-covid-19-returned-from-uk-medical-appointments/ Edited November 2, 2020 by thesultanofsheight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, trmpton said: They aren’t in hospital. It was a pre admission screening test so no lies being told. The press reports say Quote The first case was detected through a screening test on admission to Noble’s Hospital for a separate, unrelated condition - officials say appropriate safeguards are in place at the hospital to protect care professionals, patients and visitors. If the patient is discharged within their period of self-isolation, they will continue to isolate at home. which suggests they are currently in hospital. It can't really be read another way. But the gov's own dashboard says 0 in hospital. I assume their argument is that 'they're isolated' or something, but it is bollocks really. Openness, honesty, trust, all absolutely key in leadership here, all missing. Fingers crossed, head in the sand isn't good enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Or the press report might be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, The Old Git said: Or the press report might be wrong. Pretty good chance of that to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, The Old Git said: Or the press report might be wrong. Here's MR's report... https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/two-with-covid-19-returned-from-uk-medical-appointments/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, The Old Git said: Or the press report might be wrong. It's partly accurate,just not fresh cases today,or at least one of them isn't. One case was known about on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Doesn’t say where they were screened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Old Git said: Or the press report might be wrong. It’s a technical “non community” though. You assume they’re not ill enough to require hospital treatment so they’ve just gone away for an operation. picked it up, come back, and been tested by the DHSC and found positive when they’re self isolating after return. Dont they test after 7 days? Edited November 2, 2020 by thesultanofsheight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Both the BBC and 3fm report they were tested being admitted to the hospital for something else. https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/govt-confirms-two-new-covid-19-cases/ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-54784565 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Bizarre the MR report is totally the other way round to the BBC and other reports. Deliberate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Bizarre the MR report is totally the other way round to the BBC and other reports. Deliberate? Possibly MR having it's usual standard of journalism. Though the ThreeFM one is absolutely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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