IOM Covid removing restrictions

[thesultanofsheight]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Maybe the clue is in the fact that the very abnormal quarantine, and earlier lock down, has only resulted in so few breaches getting to court and prison.

Not really as we haven’t policed any of it have we? Almost every person in prison got there because some nosy busybody somewhere reported them (the petrol lady was shopped by the garage). The police or the coronavirus team have found comparatively nobody so the only way the numbers would be higher would be the authorities actually doing something to police the draconian laws they passed. But no in a cowardly way they chose to let members of society turn on each other instead.  

[monasqueen]

If the general public did not report people seen flouting isolation/quarantine rules, we'd have Coronavirus in the community by now.

[thesultanofsheight]

10 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

If the general public did not report people seen flouting isolation/quarantine rules, we'd have Coronavirus in the community by now.

But my point is if it’s that important where is the resource in the coronavirus team? If protecting us and our quarantine rules is that important to protect us that people are being thrown in jail you’d have expected hundreds of people to be drafted in straight away surely so that government was all over the process and yet still comparatively few checks are being done by the people actually charged with doing them. Even less so with the police - so really you assume that it can’t be that important at all can it if we’ve got more people making sure the buses and choo choo’s still run and helping to run rundown castles and heritage sites than we have on checking that people are not breaching self isolation rules. That’s why the virus will come back. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[Rhumsaa]

47 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Funny then that we’ve jailed now 16 or 17 people for similar ridiculous offenses and yet it’s not stopping anything is it? 

no that's not what I meant, I meant if the courts upheld the lady's  mitigation then others would use the same excuse

[thesultanofsheight]

8 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

no that's not what I meant, I meant if the courts upheld the lady's  mitigation then others would use the same excuse

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

[hissingsid]

She could have rung the police for advise but no she just did her own thing and also did not cooperate when challenged.   Everyone of those imprisoned deserved it, the only two I feel sorry for are the teenagers who followed their boss”s instruction when he drove them to Tesco.   He admitted on MR he knew it was wrong.   These chancers that think they are above the law ask for all they get and putting them in prison is actually the only certain way to make sure they did not go out drinking, watching football in a busy pub, going to Macs the minute the Police’s back was turned if they had just been warned.   Some people have no respect for the law or any other human being.   

[John Wright]

@thesultanofsheight and @Rhumsaa

Is it 16 or 17 out of key workers and returning residents, say 5500-6000, since 24 March? Or is it 16 or 17 out of 85000 residents, for 4 months lock down,  and 5500-6000 key workers/returnees?

Im fairly certain it’s the latter. And that it’s been police detected or actuated arrests in at least half.

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful. We should have better track, trace & follow up. But I’m not sure that displacing railway, or museum, workers would be very effective. It was a bit Fred Karmo at Nobles when train drivers were providing security in the early lock down days.

Theres a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

[Rhumsaa]

1 minute ago, John Wright said:

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful. We should have better track, trace & follow up. But I’m not sure that displacing railway, or museum, workers would be very effective. It was a bit Fred Karmo at Nobles when train drivers were providing security in the early lock down days.

Theres a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

I saw the start of that, didn't realise it was a family member and that is only going to end in tears.... very sad to see

[Rhumsaa]

2 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

I think you're making a bit of a leap

I am not a fan of police states in any way shape or form

I'm simply saying in this one example if the excuse of "well I just needed to get some fuel or I'd have run out and not made it home" (which is unprovable really because it's a perception even if you did the fuel purchase maths) was given weight then going forward any future isolation breaker just has to make up a similar excuse and it has a precedence.

[thesultanofsheight]

20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

@thesultanofsheight and @Rhumsaa

Is it 16 or 17 out of key workers and returning residents, say 5500-6000, since 24 March? Or is it 16 or 17 out of 85000 residents, for 4 months lock down,  and 5500-6000 key workers/returnees?

Im fairly certain it’s the latter. And that it’s been police detected or actuated arrests in at least half.

I agree it’s probably the latter. But as I said it’s probably largely down to the fact that the only people policing this seem to be the public in most cases. I’m glad you agree that it’s distasteful too. But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government - again presumably in order to police this all on the cheap. Just create a culture of fear and empower a few nosey nut jobs who know they can dob people in it and put them in jail and it will police itself. Only it hasn’t. If everything is even half as serious as we are being told then absolutely hundreds of people should have been drafted in to get their arms round all of this but it never happened and all of a sudden fixing the MER and the prom jumped back to the top of governments agenda with some token jailings thrown in on top just to under line the culture of fear. But prison sentences per see have not made any of our front line covid defenses any more robust really have they? More 111 people and more testing probably would have though! 

Edited November 8, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

 But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government 

Same approach to drugs, deterrent sentencing. It's an awful thing to do really, add an extra couple of years onto some 19 year old ecstasy users sentence as a warning to others. That's basically what they're doing in these cases, using people to send a message. 

[Roger Mexico]

32 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

That's a bit hyperbolic.  There's clearly been a load of times where people were just warned and in some of these court cases that has been said explicitly and people were only arrested on a subsequent breach.  It's pretty clear that if petrol station woman had responded more sensibly to the police when they called, that she would have just got a ticking off.

[Debbie]

38 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful.

There is a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

 

35 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

I saw the start of that, didn't realise it was a family member and that is only going to end in tears.... very sad to see

 

That shows the extent of the damage to people mental health, to sanity.

The political necessities of the Covid restrictions have been corrosive to humanity.

[the stinking enigma]

The taxi driver that reported the lady fleeing to a refuge. Did they as a result have to self isolate for 14 days? And why is it called self isolation anyway? Self implies choice

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's a bit hyperbolic.  There's clearly been a load of times where people were just warned and in some of these court cases that has been said explicitly and people were only arrested on a subsequent breach.  It's pretty clear that if petrol station woman had responded more sensibly to the police when they called, that she would have just got a ticking off.

And that is another point, if the fact she was arsey led to a charge and conviction, was that an aggravating factor?  Neither the aggravating factor nor any mitigating factor should have changed the risk and so the outcome, surely? She wasn't charged with resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer was she?