ellanvannin2010 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, trmpton said: Stuff that. The while work has now set a nasty precedent, and the Mink mutation is a good example. Do we react like this in response to every new strain now? You may find that airlines and ferry companies will require proof of vaccination even for domestic travel, just as some require photo id even when that is not legally required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, trmpton said: slightly surprised how many people are declaring this “safe” when I assume no one has had the vaccine more than a few weeks ago? Vaccine testing normally takes years. You right, "safe" in context of trials and based of medic views of how vaccine works. Safe is not an absolute is purely suggestion that society on risk/benefit basis should have vaccine rolled out and people should take it. Real issue is unless 2/3-rd have it, you only get R under 1, with restrictions. Edited November 9, 2020 by BenFairfax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: You may find that airlines and ferry companies will require proof of vaccination even for domestic travel, just as some require photo id even when that is not legally required. Any business can enforce requirements (i.e. terms of contract) under which it offers a service, subject to not failing human rights and discrimination rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 hours ago, winnie said: Vaccine ready and offers 90% protection https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54873105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, trmpton said: BBC had an article this morning showing cases levelling right off in north west England, also an article in the telegraph today stating deaths have been over counted. Boris Johnson now claimed to be angry too as he feels he’s been conned into lockdown by dodgy data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) And just to add. Someone has tragically died. Still no announcement from government when it is kinda important so when will we be privileged enough to find out more do we think? Edited November 9, 2020 by thesultanofsheight 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mirror Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, ellanvannin2010 said: You may find that airlines and ferry companies will require proof of vaccination even for domestic travel, just as some require photo id even when that is not legally required. There is no plan, for the time being, to make Covid vaccines compulsory. Health authorities and world leaders of nearly every civilised country have said that it will not be mandatory. I said "for the time being" because I am concerned that politics will get into it as well. However, most likely, it won't, because of a long list of reasons. It would be absolutely reckless to force on the general population a vaccine that has not been around for years. Especially, as it is the case with Covid-19, to prevent a virus that is harmless to most of us. Who is going to guarantee us that it won't cause some problem to the immune system later on? Such as arthritis for instance, as it has happened with other vaccines in the past. Note that the Pfizer study does not tell us if their vaccine is effective to prevent serious cases of Covid-19. You could be in a situation in which all the cases that have been prevented would have all been in the mild category, while the 10% of cases in which the vaccine has not worked are actually the serious ones, potentially deadly. We won't know that piece of information until March, at the least. Nevertheless, the expectation is that the vaccine will be truly beneficial and that from the first quarter of 2021 we can start vaccinating the 40% or 50% of the population that is more at risk from Covid-19. It will be an adult vaccine only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Grant Shapps has announced airport testing to commence on or after Dec 2nd when lockdown II expires. Looks like they are going full chat to get things moving ...... Meanwhile in Tynwald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, Black Mirror said: There is no plan, for the time being, to make Covid vaccines compulsory. Health authorities and world leaders of nearly every civilised country have said that it will not be mandatory. They will not make it compulsory but can just make it an entry requirement or a condition of carriage. The choice will then be yours to accept their conditions or not travel to that country or use that airline, ferry company, cruise line etc. It would be a free choice, no need for compulsion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:The choice will then be yours to accept their conditions or not travel to that country or use that airline, ferry company, cruise line etc. It would be a free choice, no need for compulsion You can completely envisage the IOM making it compulsory given its zero risk approach to anything that doesn’t involve testing or key workers so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mirror Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: They will not make it compulsory but can just make it an entry requirement or a condition of carriage. The choice will then be yours to accept their conditions or not travel to that country or use that airline, ferry company, cruise line etc. It would be a free choice, no need for compulsion 2 hours ago, trmpton said: Not for me thanks. slightly surprised how many people are declaring this “safe” when I assume no one has had the vaccine more than a few weeks ago? Vaccine testing normally takes years. I am sorry, but "compulsory" means precisely what you have described. It doesn't mean that the health authority is coming at you home and shove the vaccine down your throat. When it comes to vaccines, to prevent travel or access to work/schools etc is seen as making them mandatory. The current position is that it won't be mandatory. Why there are so many wannabe dictators in the Isle of Man? If you have to take it, the risk is coming from the delivery platform, rather than specifically from being a Covid vaccine. And there are safe options, from platforms that have been around for a long time. This one for instance: https://valneva.com/research-development/covid-19-vla2001/ Unfortunately, both the Pfizer's vaccine and the AstraZeneca's vaccine have untested platforms; and the latter has already had some "accidents". The Valneva vaccine should be available in the second half of 2021. The Chinese went along the tested-platform route, mostly, and it is a bit regrettable that there are not more Western options of that approach, which is inherently safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mirror Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: You can completely envisage the IOM making it compulsory given its zero risk approach to anything that doesn’t involve testing or key workers so far. It would be mad and don't think it is going to happen. It would mean that they have to shut the TT for good. A "global" process of certification would also be very problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Black Mirror said: It would be mad and don't think it is going to happen But then again this is an island that puts you in prison for buying a sandwich. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mirror Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: But then again this is an island that puts you in prison for buying a sandwich. The Isle of Man will not be able to implement a mandatory Covid vaccination on its own. It would be problematic also for the UK, if for mandatory you mean a right-to-travel requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Black Mirror said: I am sorry, but "compulsory" means precisely what you have described. It doesn't mean that the health authority is coming at you home and shove the vaccine down your throat. When it comes to vaccines, to prevent travel or access to work/schools etc is seen as making them mandatory. But it would only be required if you wanted to travel to that particular country, absolutely nothing for instance to stop the USA making it a requirement before a Visa or ESTA is issued. If you choose not to take the vaccine when and if it is available then of course that is your right but you may find that your freedom to travel the world will be more restricted. Edited November 9, 2020 by ellanvannin2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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