All Right Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 49 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: How long do we stop living our life on the basis that covid may return? I think you read my comments wrong. I wasn’t saying we shouldn’t do it far from it. I’m saying that if there is a real underlying problem with covid they’re not admitting to as a lot of people now seem to think then it’s just about the stupidest thing ever to sanction. But I suppose if anything happens it will all be conveniently blamed on our students regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, manxman34 said: So those who choose to have the vaccine gain immunity, and anti-vaxers can catch the disease, continuing natural selection That how I see it, COVID itself was an evolutionary event and vaccine choice will create another. Way medics deal with viruses is vaccines, that is the treatment.... Glad no one who knows me asked if I am taking the vaccine or not, if they did I think I would take it as a "diss". Myxomatosis selection of rabbit social behaviour comes to mind. Edited November 23, 2020 by BenFairfax Added slightly cryptic myxomatosis comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) I listened to a bit about this vaccine trial on r4 this morning. 135 participants 102 were given a placebo. Of the remaining 33, half were given the full dose, the other half, a half dose then the full one. I realise the math don't math but it was something like that. A very small test at best Edited November 23, 2020 by the stinking enigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55040992 Daily testing to reduce quarantine. Sounds like good news. No isolation if negative. Edited November 23, 2020 by Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetchtyke Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I'm no anti-vaxxer, but the pharmaceutical industry hasn't always covered itself in glory when it comes to being honest about the safety of drugs. Thalidomide is the obvious example but not the only one. I'm wary of taking a rushed vaccine and I *do* think Covid is serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: I listened to a bit about this vaccine trial on r4 this morning. 135 participants 102 were given a placebo. Of the remaining 33, half were given the full dose, the other half, a half dose then the full one. I realise the math don't math but it was something like that. A very small test at best I think there were 20000 participants. The numbers you refer to are the ones that got covid - most of them in the placebo arm of the trial (the 102) and 33 in the treatment arm. So essentially you've prevented about 70% of the expected cases in the vaccinated group. In a (very) simplistic way that's how these trials work. The half-dose vs full-dose thing is on the basis of a sub-group analysis. I'd always treat such things with caution. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, Lxxx said: We were referring to pregnant women. As far as I am aware there were no pregnant women in any of the trials so no-one knows the effect of this new kind of vaccine on foetuses. Mrs Lxxx, who was pregnant last year, is quite insistent on this fact. Of course if someone wants to take that chance then that is of course their decision. Maybe it was ill judged of me to call them stupid but it would be wise to omit our most physiologically vulnerable in the first wave. I also don't personally think I am a 'bit of an anti-vaxxer' at all. It would be silly to be anti anything if it is safe and effective. It would be prudent though to see if it satisfies both those criteria over the medium term before we hail it when it isn't even out to market. Pregnant women aren't physiologically vulnerable. Nothing is ever tested on pregnant women, and most things aren't tested on children. So you're right, that the effects on foetuses are unknown, but not really. Plenty of pregnant women catch colds, with no known foetal effects. The covid vaccine is a modified cold virus. You've also got the placenta, which is great at stopping harmful things getting through. What I can say with some certainty is that if a pregnant woman gets a severe covid infection it is bad news for the foetus as well as the mother. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, tetchtyke said: I'm no anti-vaxxer, but the pharmaceutical industry hasn't always covered itself in glory when it comes to being honest about the safety of drugs. Thalidomide is the obvious example but not the only one. I'm wary of taking a rushed vaccine and I *do* think Covid is serious. Thalidomide was a tragic disaster, but that was 60 years ago and surely the ways of testing for side effects have improved vastly, as has an aversion to product risk. Had a heated exchange last night with a few friends, and it struck me that the same people who are willing to lock themselves away because of covid, are also the least likely to have an 'unproven' vaccine. Perhaps they are very risk averse, but I have a sneaking feeling that at least one has become 'institutionalised' and finds comfort in not having to face up to the world and will happily remain closeted in self-isolation indefinitely. Somewhat telling was one who said they won't have the vaccine now but will next year to enable them go on a planned holiday next March! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, wrighty said: Pregnant women aren't physiologically vulnerable. Nothing is ever tested on pregnant women, and most things aren't tested on children. So you're right, that the effects on foetuses are unknown, but not really. Plenty of pregnant women catch colds, with no known foetal effects. The covid vaccine is a modified cold virus. You've also got the placenta, which is great at stopping harmful things getting through. What I can say with some certainty is that if a pregnant woman gets a severe covid infection it is bad news for the foetus as well as the mother. Which is all very well if we are using a similar type of technology tested over time like the flu vaccine, for example, but this vaccine is using new technology to turn the bodies cells into viral protein-making factories. It's still experimental across large groups of society. Anyway, I'm not necessarily against this vaccine I was just speaking from the perspective that as a new father, I wouldn't have wanted my wife to take part in this live experiment, just yet. I'm not ideologically opposed to anything, apart from racists and women from Peel. As I said, the stupid comment was, err, stupid. Edited November 24, 2020 by Lxxx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, Gladys said: Perhaps they are very risk averse, but I have a sneaking feeling that at least one has become 'institutionalised' and finds comfort in not having to face up to the world and will happily remain closeted in self-isolation indefinitely. Was the person Howie or Ashie who finds comfort?😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Right Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, manxman34 said: So those who choose to have the vaccine gain immunity, and anti-vaxers can catch the disease, continuing natural selection But as only 1% of them will die so that’s hardly a concern is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Apple said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55040992 Daily testing to reduce quarantine. Sounds like good news. No isolation if negative. Test, Test, Test .... Howie: No, No, No .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 31 minutes ago, Banker said: Was the person Howie or Ashie who finds comfort?😂 No, this friend throws nothing away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Nom de plume said: Test, Test, Test .... Howie: No, No, No .... I wanna go to testin' Howie said No, No, No .... Yes I've been slack but when I come back You'll know, know, know I ain't got the time And my Ashy thinks I'm fine I wanna go to testin' But I can't go, go, go Edited November 23, 2020 by b4mbi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: I listened to a bit about this vaccine trial on r4 this morning. 135 participants 102 were given a placebo. Of the remaining 33, half were given the full dose, the other half, a half dose then the full one. I realise the math don't math but it was something like that. A very small test at best Those weren’t the figures. At all. The trial was 24,000 persons. Roughly half had the vaccine and half had a placebo. 135 got Covid 102 of those receiving the placebo got Covid. 33 of those who had the vaccine got Covid, but it was mild or asymptomatic. Those who got the vaccine were subdivided. Some got 2 full doses, some got a half dose and a full dose. There were fewer positives in the different dose sample than in the equal dose sample. 90% to 62% and an average of 70%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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