IOM Covid removing restrictions

[rachomics]

13 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Seriously, start it up again. There is a market for it because the only requisite is that it is a PCR test, not the quality standard accreditation that is just a footer on the letterhead. As long as people are aware the lab isn't ISO accredited it's fine. From experience I'd have one as I know how little attention is paid to anything other than the test result.

We're smack bang in the middle of the process right now 

[Lxxx]

1 minute ago, rachomics said:

We're smack bang in the middle of the process right now 

If you can price it competitively, say £49? I'm in.

[Scotty]

32 minutes ago, All Right said:

How would that happen? Firstly all the students are being forced to self isolate even if away from family in separate premises and secondly hardly anyone aged between 18 and 21 is going to end up in hospital as they’ll just feel a bit unwell for a few days while they’re self isolating. On balance largely a poor attempt at student bashing. 

I’m sure he meant by transmission to other groups, not the kid’s themselves 

[All Right]

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I’m sure he meant by transmission to other groups, not the kid’s themselves 

How do you transmit to other groups in compulsory self isolation especially when most of them now will not even be self isolating within the family home? 

Edited November 26, 2020 by All Right
Typo

[Hmmmm]

The health minister says the number of daily admissions at Nobles has been rising in recent weeks, and is higher than expected.

 

It's down to a mix of acute care needs, with seasonal illness only accounting for a small proportion of this rise.

 

As a result, from the 27 December, elective orthopedic operations have been suspended for reasons of capacity.

 

David Ashford says a 'winter plan' has now been activated to maintain flow of patients.

• Share

So the orthopaedic department have a month or two off.  What is Minister Ashford spouting this nonsense for?  Acute care needs? Eh and 'with seasonal illness only accounting for a small proportion of this rise.'

Sounds and smells like complete nonsense.

[worlds-greatest-manxman]

10 minutes ago, Hmmmm said:

The health minister says the number of daily admissions at Nobles has been rising in recent weeks, and is higher than expected.

 

It's down to a mix of acute care needs, with seasonal illness only accounting for a small proportion of this rise.

 

As a result, from the 27 December, elective orthopedic operations have been suspended for reasons of capacity.

 

David Ashford says a 'winter plan' has now been activated to maintain flow of patients.

• Share

So the orthopaedic department have a month or two off.  What is Minister Ashford spouting this nonsense for?  Acute care needs? Eh and 'with seasonal illness only accounting for a small proportion of this rise.'

Sounds and smells like complete nonsense.

All the old people who have just moved here because they weren't getting healthcare in UK?

[Scotty]

20 minutes ago, All Right said:

How do you transmit to other groups in compulsory self isolation especially when most of them now will not even be self isolating within the family home? 

Who says they will self isolate ? 

[All Right]

28 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Who says they will self isolate ? 

The law, their parents, the fact that they can’t now share a household if all members aren’t also self isolating. So just about everything really. What leads you to pursue the belief or fantasy that they won’t? Are you jealous of people who gained degrees and seek to take this opportunity to stigmatize them? I’m genuinely interested in understanding why you think it’s an issue? The laws and rules are clear. 

[Scotty]

14 minutes ago, All Right said:

The law, their parents, the fact that they can’t now share a household if all members aren’t also self isolating. So just about everything really. What leads you to pursue the belief or fantasy that they won’t? Are you jealous of people who gained degrees and seek to take this opportunity to stigmatize them? I’m genuinely interested in understanding why you think it’s an issue? The laws and rules are clear. 

Confirmation

[jaymann]

I'm not inclined to do this, but I slightly see @Scottys point. Only slightly.

I think the introduction of 1 hour outdoor exercise wearing a mask is probably the biggest weakness in the armour of this plan to hopefully get students (and others) back safely and without issue for Christmas.

Do I believe it is likely that a very small minority will take advantage of this as an opportunity to meet a friend? It think its possible.

Most here know I'm all for new direction and strategy in terms of our borders moving forward. But this half-baked attempt has potential to backfire against the 'keep the virus out at all costs' approach currently adopted 

Edited November 27, 2020 by jaymann

[All Right]

10 minutes ago, jaymann said:

Most here know I'm all for new direction and strategy in terms of our borders moving forward. But this half-baked attempt has potential to backfire against the 'keep the virus out at all costs' approach currently adopted 

But what are the grounds that exist to believe that people won’t follow the rules? There are few that I can see. Just a load of vocal baby boomers (normally) who seem to have a real problem with Manx students. Let’s not forget these kids have been living with mask wearing, and distancing, and practicing good hygiene for months when the average Manx resident has experience of .. doing exactly nothing. Sorry but the risks are minimal I’d say and we are doing a huge disservice to our own citizens by just assuming their all idiots and wanting to lock them down further. The Isle of Man’s  problem now, IMHO, is the completely unrealistic objective of perpetual virus eradication at all costs. 

[jaymann]

2 minutes ago, All Right said:

But what are the grounds that exist to believe that people won’t follow the rules? There are few that I can see. Just a load of vocal baby boomers (normally) who seem to have a real problem with Manx students. Let’s not forget these kids have been living with mask wearing, and distancing, and practicing good hygiene for months when the average Manx resident has experience of .. doing exactly nothing. Sorry but the risks are minimal I’d say and we are doing a huge disservice to our own citizens by just assuming their all idiots and wanting to lock them down further. The Isle of Man’s  problem now, IMHO, is the completely unrealistic objective of perpetual virus eradication at all costs. 

I don't disagree. But from a risk perspective, its hard to believe there isn't a small % of people in all returning groups that see an opportunity with the new exercise benefit over previous returnees, not specifically students. Generally, idiots. Not that a particular group of people (students) are idiots, because I don't believe that.

Your last sentence is nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

[All Right]

2 minutes ago, jaymann said:

I don't disagree. But from a risk perspective, its hard to believe there isn't a small % of people in all returning groups that see an opportunity with the new exercise benefit over previous returnees, not specifically students. Generally, idiots. Not that a particular group of people (students) are idiots, because I don't believe that.

Your last sentence is nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

And yet key workers can come over and be digging a hole in the prom in half an hour of arrival and that’s ok? Sorry we agree on quite a bit but I will never accept this apartheid like system where key workers can do what they like and everyone else is treated like a total moron who has to be locked up. If it’s ok for key workers to be out and about with no self isolation and sensible precautions then it’s ok for students to be allowed out for an hour taking precautions. The risks are the same (in fact they’re probably lower). 

[NoTailT]

[Filippo]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:23 PM, pongo said:

I doubt it will be compulsory. But I suspect that that health passports will be a de facto requirement enforced by employers, private companies and organisations because their staff, customers and shareholders demand it. For example, to fly, land in another country, go to a supermarket, the cinema, university, place of employment etc.

The new narrative amongst anti-vaxxers will be that these things have not been adequately tested - missing the point that the intensity and focus on testing has effectively accelerated that process by concentrating additional resources and man-hours. Because very much more money has been put into this.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 9:26 PM, All Right said:

Why? This pandemic is seeing off very low numbers and those who are going are in acknowledged high risk groups. It’s hard to see that everyone will be clamouring to force inject people with a cure to something that won’t kill them and which won’t kill anyone around them either. What you seem to be talking about is hype and conformity. The minute class actions rear their heads (as they will in the US especially) they will change their tune on vaccination to access services.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 10:58 PM, pongo said:

Nobody is going to be forcing anyone to be injected or to conform. Or to take a flight, visit another country, go to the supermarket etc.

Be free. You can even be a rebel and paint your bedroom black if your really want.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 10:21 PM, Apple said:

I think it will be voluntary, at first. the we will be 'nudged' to have it. We will no doubt hear much, much more about the hew normal and gradually lose our 'choices'  in order to to enjoy our 'freedoms'.

Bit like banks and post offices I suppose.

 

On 11/26/2020 at 10:30 AM, Nom de plume said:

Yes, it’s conform or lose your basic freedoms to travel & exist.

There is no middle ground.

 

18 hours ago, Cambon said:

This I should exactly my point. In roughly two years the Spanish flu basically died out without a vaccine. This will do the same. However, we may have the opportunity to vaccinate the most vulnerable very soon. There is no point in vaccinating everyone.

Mandatory vaccination of everyone is totally unnecessary.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 9:53 PM, boswellian said:

It is good to be free of fear. Fear is very bad for the immune system.

 

 

In 20s and 30s many authoritarians felt the elated confidence of those “on the right side of history”; the inevitable would finally come to their rescue. “The moustache has got to come” was their insipid motto; and for that they meant Stalin.

Among the many, many things that they had failed to understand; it did not occur to them that those on the other side of the argument, those fighting to maintain their freedoms, could, very possibly, fight them to death. That they could be outgunned as per strength, intelligence and sheer determination. If drugs are due to be forcibly pumped into my sacred person; I say this: it is going to be incredibly bloody; you can’t even imagine.

With Covid, the crux of the matter has never been the control of a virus. The left built a mental construct of Covid meant to finally prove the definite need of socialism; forcing most governments, including the UK, to position themselves along that axis. This island, due to its peculiarity, has been forced to choose a point along an axis which has insularity and nativism at one end; openness and prosperity at the other end. But I will leave aside the grand philosophical arguments for the time being.

Compulsory vaccination would require international cooperation, analogous to the one the world has with travel passports. China has said it won’t impose Covid vaccination on its citizens (not a democratic country and thus relatively immune from the stupidity of populism). In the US it would be almost unthinkable as a federal policy; violent protest would erupt quickly. Many other countries have also excluded it.

It would be extremely odd for the Isle of Man to strike on its own on this matter. Even the meatheads of Quayle and Ashford don’t have enough meat in the heads so as not to see the huge problems coming with such outlier policy. If there is one key area of policy concern with CoMin, it is their concern about the financial viability of the island as an independent entity.

Drug companies have always been held liable for vaccine adverse events. With Covid, they had to be granted immunity from prosecution in the civil courts, or no such vaccine could have been developed and administered so quickly. As soon as the Covid vaccines will be rolled out on a vast scale, there will be cases of Guillain Barre Syndrome, transverse myelitis (read spinal cord damage), narcolepsy, and plenty of other nasties. I point to these two BBC links just to make one such example (the literature on vaccine adverse events is vast really):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-35494977
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21197394

If compensation cannot be dispensed from the drug companies, there will be a lot of pressure on the government to step in; even if those Covid vaccinations occurred on an entirely voluntary basis. Imagine, instead, on which pressure the government would find itself if it had practically forced its citizens onto those vaccinations by preventing the vaccine rebels to conduct a normal life… Which is why mandatory vaccination is never going to happen on this island as a solo policy move. Most unlikely also as a coordinated international policy.

From a mere epidemiological perspective, there is no need of mandatory vaccinations to end this pandemic. Covid-19 would gradually fade away on its own accord, for being a coronavirus. There are four other coronavirus endemic in the human specie: NL63, 229E, OC43 and HKU1; causing one third of our damn colds. They are handled well by our immune system, in a natural manner; in due course, the course of nature, Covid-19 will be handled as easily as those other coronaviruses. Too much vaccination is simply not practical and difficult to justify on the basis of evidence.

Please do not understand any of the above as an advice against having the Covid vaccine. Personally I won’t join the jab queue; it is too politicised and preservation of my individuality is an overriding concern for me. But me is me; others have to make their own mind. I am not disputing that the Covid vaccines can prevent Covid deaths.