IOM Covid removing restrictions

[TheTeapot]

9 minutes ago, Filippo said:

 

With Covid, the crux of the matter has never been the control of a virus. The left built a mental construct of Covid meant to finally prove the definite need of socialism; forcing most governments, including the UK, to position themselves along that axis. 

hahahaha

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, All Right said:

But what are the grounds that exist to believe that people won’t follow the rules? There are few that I can see. Just a load of vocal baby boomers (normally) who seem to have a real problem with Manx students. Let’s not forget these kids have been living with mask wearing, and distancing, and practicing good hygiene for months when the average Manx resident has experience of .. doing exactly nothing. Sorry but the risks are minimal I’d say and we are doing a huge disservice to our own citizens by just assuming their all idiots and wanting to lock them down further. The Isle of Man’s  problem now, IMHO, is the completely unrealistic objective of perpetual virus eradication at all costs. 

There are 'idiots' about. How many have we jailed already?

There is a small percentage of people that are burnt out by all this and will simply ignore the rules.

There is a small percentage of highly emotional people that will still take the risk of putting their arms around a person immediately upon their arrival back on the island despite their requirement to isolate. Know of this first hand...someone you would expect (and hope, given their work) to know better.

There is probably a tiny percentage of people who will get drunk while isolating - and as their mates are heading out  thinking 'they are not feeling any symptoms' will take the risk of heading out into a busy pub crowd - unlikely to be spotted - as there are not the resources to police everyone those who are/will be isolating.

It will only take a very tiny percentage (just one or two idiots) to do any of the above and head to a crowded shop or pub in the build up to xmas - and we are up shit creek again - in terms of a lockdown - and all the economic damage, never mind the heartache for some, that comes with that.

I was talking to a seemingly sensible person about getting vaccinated - and surprisingly he thought vaccines were 'conspiratorial' and won't be going for one. That worries  me for him - someone nearly 60 years old.

I know covid will not go away and probably a large number of people will refuse to be vaccinated. But when a vaccination is on offer and you refuse it - that will be the time that society no longer has any duty to take island-wide measures to protect you....and you will be on your own in terms of protecting yourself. So there will still be regular deaths.

Meanwhile, while there is no vaccine, those breaching the rules and putting people at risk should be jumped on severely. And that's not just students - there are many others heading back for xmas - and it includes all those key worker visitors also. 

[trmpton]

29 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

It will only take a very tiny percentage (just one or two idiots) to do any of the above and head to a crowded shop or pub in the build up to xmas - and we are up shit creek again - in terms of a lockdown - and all the economic damage, never mind the heartache for some, that comes with that.

Over dramatic much?

We know fact Guernsey had several positive cases wandering around completely unchecked with no masks and no social distancing for a period of time.  Chances that the ones they identified were the only positive cases are low.

Did anyone get ill? Did it rip though the community? Did they need a lockdown to contain it?

Hell, they never even found out where it came from so chances of it not still circulating over there are low I would say.

We also know for fact that a positive case went to Tesco and McDonalds and then right through nth police station and prison.  Did anyone else get it?

[Nom de plume]

My issue with all this & my feeling since this whole Covid thing erupted remains unchanged since March this year.

As I have eluded earlier, approximately 57,000 out of 61,000 Covid deaths officially recorded via the United Kingdom Office for National Statistics (Covid on the death certificate within 28 days) were aged 65 years old and above. The majority of the 4,000 deaths outside of this age group (and perhaps a large number of those within it) were persons who sadly were in extremely poor health or had underlying medical conditions.

That equates to approximately 93% of all UK deaths in that age group.

The UK Government have effectively destroyed the economy & prospects for at least one generation of young people and perhaps (likely) more. The UK is now in a recession so bad that the figures being recorded were unfathomable 12 months ago & the deepest since currency was introduced & the markets appeared.

As I type this, the Arcadia Group (as a generalisation), employer of 13,000 people is about to go under. Another 13,000 people and families likely to suffer horrendous hardship because the Government failed to shield the vulnerable and elderly in a way that could allow society to continue. The job losses are only just beginning. The medical consequences are already manifesting - Nobles can't cope. Is there a staffing problem? Yes, one would suggest ... Why? Go figure. School teachers are leaving the Island. Why? Go figure.

History is going to judge this as one of the darkest periods in the existence of the human race.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Nom de plume

[ellanvannin2010]

5 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

As I type this, the Arcadia Group, employer of 13,000 people is about to go under. Another 13,000 people and families likely to suffer horrendous hardship because the Government failed to shield the vulnerable and elderly in a way that could allow society to continue. The job losses are only just beginning. The medical consequences are already manifesting - Nobles can't cope. Is there a staffing problem? Yes, one would suggest ... Why? Go figure. School teachers are leaving the Island. Why? Go figure.

History is going to judge this as one of the darkest periods in the existence of the human race.

Not sure you can blame the woes of the Arcadia group on Covid, and as for one of the darkest periods of the human race, really?.

Have you had too much caffeine this morning?

[Nom de plume]

35 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Not sure you can blame the woes of the Arcadia group on Covid, and as for one of the darkest periods of the human race, really?.

Have you had too much caffeine this morning?

Yes it's contributed, yes it's one of the darkest periods (handling of the pandemic) and I've never ever drank enough coffee.

I’m STILL absolutely amazed & staggered that people think the measures & policies put in place to deal with Covid have been proportionate to the consequences. Like UTTERLY bamboozled.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Nom de plume

[ellanvannin2010]

30 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Yes it's contributed, yes it's one of the darkest periods (handling of the pandemic) and I've never ever drank enough coffee.

Only survived due to a CVA in 2019, shambolic, ill thought out maybe, darkest nah. Try some herbal tea to relax you

[Debbie]

34 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

Not sure you can blame the woes of the Arcadia group on Covid, and as for one of the darkest periods of the human race, really?.

Have you had too much caffeine this morning?

Let's say the darkest period for liberal democracy since WWII, as a more measured statement. Of course Acadia would have gone under anyway.

Many of you still fail to see the long term implications of such heavy government intervention that has achieved not much as controlling the virus and degraded so many livelihoods possibly permanently.

[WTF]

so does the 1 hour exercise have to be taken in 1 block  or can you have 6 x 10 minute exercises per 24 hours ?  

[The Duck of Atholl]

28 minutes ago, WTF said:

so does the 1 hour exercise have to be taken in 1 block  or can you have 6 x 10 minute exercises per 24 hours ?  

Rob Callister is the forum expert on how many times you can go out to exercise in a day without getting your collar felt. 

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, trmpton said:

Over dramatic much?

 

Not really - I can go to the pub tonight - and look after my elderly father tomorrow, whilst my elderly mother gets a break to go into town. Meanwhile she's shopping keeping people in jobs and I am busy keeping some bar staff in a job and today went into town for lunch helping keep some restaurant staff in a job. All of these businesses are open with few/no restrictions.

I'm unlikely to do that after tomorrow (the busy pub bit I mean) as I want to minimise the risk to my parents when the great masses return for xmas. So it might be a Sun/Mon evening quite drink instead - and not at all black eye Friday week.

[pongo]

2 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

History is going to judge this as one of the darkest periods in the existence of the human race.

You have a frightening ignorance of history. 

[trmpton]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Not really - I can go to the pub tonight - and look after my elderly father tomorrow, whilst my elderly mother gets a break to go into town. Meanwhile she's shopping keeping people in jobs and I am busy keeping some bar staff in a job and today went into town for lunch helping keep some restaurant staff in a job. All of these businesses are open with few/no restrictions.

I'm unlikely to do that after tomorrow (the busy pub bit I mean) as I want to minimise the risk to my parents when the great masses return for xmas. So it might be a Sun/Mon evening quite drink instead - and not at all black eye Friday week.

But why the stress, given the example I gave from guernsey or do you think they are living in COVID free bliss?

There was an outbreak they only even found out about because of a pre travel test and they appear to have contained it.  No drama, no issues.  Why the certainty that one or two possible rule breakers here would result in carnage and devastation?  I don’t get it

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

My issue with all this & my feeling since this whole Covid thing erupted remains unchanged since March this year.

As I have eluded earlier, approximately 57,000 out of 61,000 Covid deaths officially recorded via the United Kingdom Office for National Statistics (Covid on the death certificate within 28 days) were aged 65 years old and above. The majority of the 4,000 deaths outside of this age group (and perhaps a large number of those within it) were persons who sadly were in extremely poor health or had underlying medical conditions.

That equates to approximately 93% of all UK deaths in that age group.

The UK Government have effectively destroyed the economy & prospects for at least one generation of young people and perhaps (likely) more. The UK is now in a recession so bad that the figures being recorded were unfathomable 12 months ago & the deepest since currency was introduced & the markets appeared.

As I type this, the Arcadia Group (as a generalisation), employer of 13,000 people is about to go under. Another 13,000 people and families likely to suffer horrendous hardship because the Government failed to shield the vulnerable and elderly in a way that could allow society to continue. The job losses are only just beginning. The medical consequences are already manifesting - Nobles can't cope. Is there a staffing problem? Yes, one would suggest ... Why? Go figure. School teachers are leaving the Island. Why? Go figure.

History is going to judge this as one of the darkest periods in the existence of the human race.

So,  whilst the risk is low to individuals, the knock-on impacts can be significant.

Just because it doesn't kill you, doesn't mean you can't be rather unwell. And those who are unwell only don't die because they can actually get treated for it. As soon as hospital space runs low, what happens when you break your arm, or need to be taken in for a more serious injury? What happens to the person in a car crash who is competing for the ICU beds already filled by COVID patients?

Of course, you could argue that if it only impacts the over 65s, then prioritise the young for hospital beds, but then you're writing off millions of people who might otherwise have quite a good, and productive innings left.

In the UK, they literally had to build huge temporary morgues for the bodies of the deceased. Bodies sitting around isn't good from a moral, ethical or health perspective.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

17 hours ago, Scotty said:

Who says they will self isolate ? 

How many people have come back and not self isolated?

The number is pretty small. Students aren't exactly dim either. They know what'll happen if they don't.

Many have already come back, note how many issues we've not had there, and note how many came back in March, and how many issues we've not had there too.