IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Happier diner]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

Key workers can now have test at 7 days and if negative go to shops and walk down streets etc so there is a difference, it’s only if you are a resident who pays taxes etc that you can’t have 7 days testing any longer 

Interesting. Do they have to wear a mask in public spaces?

[Lxxx]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

This contradicts my A level biology. At the end of the day our antibodies attack the virus and kill it. The Pfizer vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies in a different way but the same biology applies. The virus does not continue to reproduce in a vaccinated person (if the antibody response has been triggered) so they would not be as contagious as someone who was ill and actively shedding viable virus.

Maybe you should take your A level biology to the top pharmaceutical companies. They are always on the lookout for new geniuses.  

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Maybe you should take your A level biology to the top pharmaceutical companies. They are always on the lookout for new geniuses.  

Sarky person. Very funny. You misunderstood.  What I am saying is the basic biology is the same. Antibodies attack the virus cells. Just like we need air to breath. Unless someone can show me a difference in this case I'll stick with the principles of life which I don't think have changed whatever sarky gifts on here think.

[Lxxx]

20 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Sarky person. Very funny. You misunderstood.  What I am saying is the basic biology is the same. Antibodies attack the virus cells. Just like we need air to breath. Unless someone can show me a difference in this case I'll stick with the principles of life which I don't think have changed whatever sarky gifts on here think.

No I am being genuinely serious. You sound more sure than many of the worlds top scientists.

The concern about using the mRNA technology is that (compared to DNA) mRNA is a very fragile molecule, hence it has to be stored at very cold temperatures. As such there is no guarantee that once in the human body enough of the cells take it up and mount a sufficiently protective immune response. Consequently if they do we don't know how long that immunity would last. There is a real fear that people could behave like they are immune but can still become infected. 

If it works then great but not even Pfizer know that yet. Which is why should probably write to them. 

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

No I am being genuinely serious. You sound more sure than many of the worlds top scientists.

The concern about using the mRNA technology is that (compared to DNA) mRNA is a very fragile molecule, hence it has to be stored at very cold temperatures. As such there is no guarantee that once in the human body enough of the cells take it up and mount a sufficiently protective immune response. Consequently if they do we don't know how long that immunity would last. There is a real fear that people could behave like they are immune but can still become infected. 

If it works then great but not even Pfizer know that yet. Which is why should probably write to them. 

Yes but remember. I was just saying that it's still antibodies that attack the virus. Something that you have not managed to disprove. You have only managed to make a very poor effort at humour and cut and paste some complex scientific text. I don't claim to be an expert at all, merely question your comment that the vaccine won't contribute to reducing the impact of this virus. Something I disagree with you on.

[Lxxx]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes but remember. I was just saying that it's still antibodies that attack the virus. Something that you have not managed to disprove. You have only managed to make a very poor effort at humour and cut and paste some complex scientific text. I don't claim to be an expert at all, merely question your comment that the vaccine won't contribute to reducing the impact of this virus. Something I disagree with you on.

This is like pulling teeth so I'll make this my last response.

The vaccine will have an impact on the virus, only a fool would dispute otherwise. We as yet do not know the extent of that impact and whether it will deliver long term on it's apparent promise short term. This has been widely acknowledged. Those are the current facts and as with any new technology the results will emerge over time. It's a reasonable view to take whether it be a vaccine, statin or a vitamin supplement.  

Regardless of your A level biology qualification the industry still needs data to support it's assumptions, which is why they are conducting ongoing trials and surveillance once it gets rolled out. To monitor efficacy and safety. 

Good luck with your job search. The industry needs great minds at this time. 

[quilp]

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Edited November 29, 2020 by quilp
Double post ffs

[quilp]

Just now, quilp said:

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid-19-is-the-virus-mutating/

We know very little about what effect any of the vaccines may have on this virus. Better to take nowt for granted... 

 

[spoiledbratoframsey]

16 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Just like TB and polio did, without a vaccine, then?   There's no guarantee that viruses will gradually fade away over time - polio never did.

And SARS was (hopefully) eliminated by the sort of measures being used against Covid-19 now, not because it became less dangerous.  MERS still gives rise to clusters of cases occasionally and is even more deadly than SARS.  It hasn't been eliminated because of there being a non-human reservoir in camels.

 

22 hours ago, Roxanne said:

But, with respect, you don’t know that. Like the rest of us you’re only guessing. We’ve never seen this virus before. No-one knows how it’s going to evolve or how things are going to end up. 
 

 

Damn Roger Mexico: You are the most mischievous of posters. You deleted one piece of what I had written, to make my own posting demonstrably false. I did not say that it would have faded away in the sense of actually disappearing; I meant that it would have faded away as a serious illness; or as an illness at all. There are four human coronaviruses that infect us all time and cause no more than a cold. They are called 229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1 and if you want to read more, just google on the topic.

It is true that it is a new virus and that a margin of safety had to be built in our response to it. But to assume that it would have stuck around as a serious illness you have to assume that it is fundamentally different from the other respirator illnesses that we have seen before and the way they evolve over time.

Polio and TB are so much more awful for the simple reason that our body is unable to clear them on its own. Over time, they can and will wreck the strongest of men; if he has been infected. Covid-19 has a completely different pathological profile. 80-90% of people who have it, don’t even realise having it unless they are tested for it! I had Polio and TB vaccinations when I was a kid and would not hesitate to repeat them again if needed. I don't think I am going to have a Covid vaccine.

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

14 minutes ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

 

Damn Roger Mexico: You are the most mischievous of posters. You deleted one piece of what I had written, to make my own posting demonstrably false. I did not say that it would have faded away in the sense of actually disappearing; I meant that it would have faded away as a serious illness; or as an illness at all. There are four human coronaviruses that infect us all time and cause no more than a cold. They are called 229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1 and if you want to read more, just google on the topic.

It is true that it is a new virus and that a margin of safety had to be built in our response to it. But to assume that it would have stuck around as a serious illness you have to assume that it is fundamentally different from the other respirator illnesses that we have seen before and the way they evolve over time.

Polio and TB are so much more awful for the simple reason that our body is unable to clear them on its own. Over time, they can and will wreck the strongest of men; if he has been infected. Covid-19 has a completely different pathological profile. 80-90% of people who have it, don’t even realise having it unless they are tested for it! I had Polio and TB vaccinations when I was a kid and would not hesitate to repeat them again if needed. I don't think I am going to have a Covid vaccine.

There may be other coronaviruses, but that doesn't mean they're remotely similar in impact or sickness. Take a look at various chemicals for example. H2O is water, drinking H2O2 will kill you. The difference is a single oxygen molecule. But they're both hydrogen oxides so they simply must be safe.

For a lot of people, COVID can make you significantly unwell, even more so than the flu say, and whilst it's mostly polishing off people who are in fragile health, that doesn't mean it's not making people who are otherwise alright seriously ill, with the impacts that has.

All viruses have selective pressure to become less deadly over time. Does that mean we accept a lot of excess deaths to get to that point, for the sake of a quick poke of a needle?

Look at hemorrhagic fevers, the most deadly ones don't spread as far. The big Ebola outbreak in 2014 had an approx 50% fatality rate, versus previous ones that could go as high as 95%. You, as a virus, don't spread as far when you kill your host too quickly. But mutation takes time, and could still lead to nastier strains before nicer ones. See COVID in mink as a worrying example.

 

[spoiledbratoframsey]

4 hours ago, Roxanne said:

It’s because we don’t trust.

We know we’ve been lied to, manipulated, controlled, to by people who are supposed to act in our best interests and we know they are acting to their own agenda. Not always, but at the top, where it really matters.

That’s what holding me back. Hands up.

4 hours ago, Gladys said:

So, we now have some (not 1 but 3, I think) vaccinations and I just cannot understand why so many are trying to find reasons not to have one of them. 

 

 

Forced vaccinations would be deeply corrosive of the fabric of society, in a way that some of you seem unable to understand.

It would lead many young people to understand the true nature of their government and hence despise it.

[spoiledbratoframsey]

6 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

There may be other coronaviruses, but that doesn't mean they're remotely similar in impact or sickness. Take a look at various chemicals for example. H2O is water, drinking H2O2 will kill you. The difference is a single oxygen molecule. But they're both hydrogen oxides so they simply must be safe.

For a lot of people, COVID can make you significantly unwell, even more so than the flu say, and whilst it's mostly polishing off people who are in fragile health, that doesn't mean it's not making people who are otherwise alright seriously ill, with the impacts that has.

All viruses have selective pressure to become less deadly over time. Does that mean we accept a lot of excess deaths to get to that point, for the sake of a quick poke of a needle?

Look at hemorrhagic fevers, the most deadly ones don't spread as far. The big Ebola outbreak in 2014 had an approx 50% fatality rate, versus previous ones that could go as high as 95%. You, as a virus, don't spread as far when you kill your host too quickly. But mutation takes time, and could still lead to nastier strains before nicer ones. See COVID in mink as a worrying example.

 

 

You are absolutely free to live your sick life in the basement of your house.

Just don't try to stop me living my life in the open spaces and fresh air.

Because if you do, you may end up shot in the back of the head. I truly mean it in the most literal sense.

There have been 150 police arrests today in London among those protesting the Covid dictatorship. If the repression does not end soon, it is only the beginning and it will evolve into a more serious type of violence.

Those pretending to control us, don't seem to have an idea of the kind of anger they are unleashing.

It happened in Britain in the post WWII era, following the command economy and society brought by that war. This time, could be worse, because trying to control the population through fear of a virus is far more absurd than fighting Hitler.

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

 

Forced vaccinations would be deeply corrosive of the fabric of society, in a way that some of you seem unable to understand.

It would lead many young people to understand the true nature of their government and hence despise it.

I am not advocating forced vaccination, but for everyone to think seriously about their contribution to managing this virus. 

However, I was reminded a few days ago about how your child would not be accepted into school without the MMR.  It wasn't forced, but your child couldn't start state education without it.  I am not sure what the position on that is now, but it was the case when my children were starting their education. 

[piebaps]

Jesus, a death threat on MF. WT actual F??

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, piebaps said:

Jesus, a death threat on MF. WT actual F??

Where?

It's ok I see it, it didn't strike me as a death threat, just a bit of anarchist angst. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Gladys