IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Simple Stuff]

31 minutes ago, Filippo said:

Oh gosh, you are so deluded! You see the whole problem from the perspective of an islander retiree whose life (social, economic etc) is nearly all comprehended within the perimeter of the island; apart from a few holidays. You appear not being able to even consider that there might be a different point of view, as legitimate as yours. I am not going to get into the bragging game of academic and professional qualifications. Nonetheless, among my circle of middle-aged accomplished globetrotters, there is not one, not one of them, who has a substantially different opinion on the virus, this virus... the idiotic government response to this virus; the vexatious issue of mandatory vaccinations. They all had MMR on their children without hesitation. They all would set off a bomb (or fund someone to do it on their behalf; better!) rather than having a Covid vaccine pumped into their body. Because, they cannot live in a world in which the government has so much power on the individual. – We never had so much argument about all the other viruses and vaccines, prior to Covid; those are legitimate health issues. We are having so much argument about Covid, because Covid is politics.

Most leaders of the part of the world we regard as “free” (laugh…) have clearly stated that Covid vaccinations won’t be made mandatory. Neither by direct legislation, nor by indirect coercion through travel restrictions etc. I won’t quote the Trump administration, obviously, though you know where America stands (the US is too divided to agree on any coherent Covid policy); just three other meaningful examples.

The Swiss government has stated on a number of occasions that any Covid vaccine will be voluntary. Specifically, Swiss Health Minister Alain Berset has recently said: “Swiss law does not allow us to force someone to get vaccinated against their will; and there is no plan to change that legislation”.

You said that all but a tiny percentage of people agree with your point of view. Well, in Switzerland, only half of the population is eager to have the Covid vaccine; and 2/3 of Swiss are against making it mandatory. Read it by yourself here:

https://lenews.ch/2020/10/09/coronavirus-half-would-take-vaccine-in-switzerland

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/can-switzerland-convince-its-people-to-take-the-covid-19-vaccine--/46169830

You would find similar statistics about public opinion in the US; on the issue of Covid vaccines.

Boris Johnson, during his most recent – absurd – fortnight of Covid self-isolation (which happened about two weeks ago) made this specific statement in an online conference: "Let's be clear, there will be no compulsory vaccination. That's not the way we do things in this country.”

UK law forbids compulsory vaccinations. It explicitly states that the government powers to prevent or mitigate the spread of a pandemic infection cannot include mandatory requirements to undertake medical treatment and/or vaccination. The Coronavirus 2020 bill introduced in March 2020 restates this prohibition and extends it to Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And, I believe there is enough rationality within CoMin to understand well the vexatious issues behind any policy of mandatory vaccinations. At the time in which Pfizer came out with its phase III result, I heard David Ashford on Manx Radio state that “you can’t make vaccinations mandatory” and that “there is so much we don’t know yet [regarding those vaccines]”.

Historically, key areas of policy concern with CoMin have been the financial viability of the island as an independent entity; and preventing the island becoming a geriatric facility. As I had explained with my previous posting to this thread, there could be serious legal and financial implications with an outlier policy of mandatory vaccinations on this island. And any such a policy would trounce especially hard on young people’s rights and their likely point of view of the matter; considering that Covid is less dangerous than common seasonal flu for the under 40s. I think we can trust the legal and financial advisers of CoMin more than their medical counsel; and the sensitivity of MHKs’ antennae for protecting their pensions and those of their cronies; to do the right thing to protect those vested interests.

9 hours ago, Apple said:

It won't be governments that will want vaccinations, rather the companies that provide the services - insurance, transport etc. 

If that is the case, I am perfectly comfortable with that; with being denied travel (from airlines etc) on THAT specific basis. I am absolutely happy with having market forces asserting themselves and regulating this matter! Bring it on. You see, in the real world, companies (and people) act according to self-interest.

 

Here is a picture of me. When? Decades from now, in my nineties. Just after I said: “Screw the government and its f***ing vaccine!”

And by then, I truly hope the lot of you authoritarians to be all dead. I will die on my own terms.

 

[Nom de plume]

32 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Maybe some enterprising journalist should ask them that direct question. We can't pretend to be Covid-free forever and nor should we aspire to. 

The absolute state of our investigative journalism.

[Debbie]

16 hours ago, Gladys said:

17 hours ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Forced vaccinations would be deeply corrosive of the fabric of society, in a way that some of you seem unable to understand. It would lead many young people to understand the true nature of their government and hence despise it.

I am not advocating forced vaccination, but for everyone to think seriously about their contribution to managing this virus.

However, I was reminded a few days ago about how your child would not be accepted into school without the MMR.  It wasn't forced, but your child couldn't start state education without it.  I am not sure what the position on that is now, but it was the case when my children were starting their education.

Gladys, you are one the more thoughtful and considerate posters on this forums. However, you too are looking at the problem from a political prism rather than from the perspective of its various realities.

You know that the Covid vaccines are very reactogenic; beyond anything that we have experience before with vaccines. Even if truly serious side effects turn out to be rare, rare enough for the vaccinations to be deemed safe enough proceed, those shots won’t be a walk in the park. As soon as they start to be administered on this island, there will be a tread on the topic of the side effects. Some vaccinologists think that many people will not turn out for the second shot.

Here is what I read on the last issue of The Science mag:

This summer, computational biologist Luke Hutchison volunteered for a trial of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. But after the second injection, his arm swelled up to the size of a “goose egg,” Hutchison says. He can't be sure he got the vaccine and not a placebo, but within a few hours, Hutchison, who was healthy and 43, was beset by bone and muscle aches and a 38.9°C fever. “I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes,” he says. “I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: ‘Should I call 911?’”

The ethics of pushing the young into those shots, considering also the possibility of unknown long term effects on the immune system, are very questionable to say the least. The head of the UK vaccine task force declared – a few weeks ago, just before she was sacked – that it is "an adult only vaccine" for the over 50s. To younger people, it would have caused unwarranted "freak accidents". So she said. The UK government has systematically sided those whose persuasions don't fit into the politically correct narrative.

The UK government is acting in its own crude political interest, rather than been driven by considerations of people's welfare, of even health issues considerations. There was the science prior to Covid; and now we have the politically compliant science post-Covid. I am sorry, being that the current state of affairs, one has the right to protect oneself.

[Utah 01]

2 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

Whats the Manx plan?

You've been told a hundred times.  It's 'wait and see what everyone does'.

The Parish Council is paid far too much to expect it to come up with a coherent plan - about anything!

[Apple]

Much news over the weekend about how they will be using 'influencers' and well known entertainers, footballers etc to actually encourage people to take up the vaccine. Some even saying they will be televised doing so (good grief, I know!)

The main issue for me though is about the softly muted AAA approach (access all areas) to have personal data / records available to confirm vaccination. The Health Service may be called upon to allow such access across the government in some form or other to show vaccination and hence safety to travel etc. 

Computer terminals at the seaports and airports anyone?

[Lxxx]

10 minutes ago, Apple said:

Much news over the weekend about how they will be using 'influencers' and well known entertainers, footballers etc to actually encourage people to take up the vaccine. Some even saying they will be televised doing so (good grief, I know!)

The main issue for me though is about the softly muted AAA approach (access all areas) to have personal data / records available to confirm vaccination. The Health Service may be called upon to allow such access across the government in some form or other to show vaccination and hence safety to travel etc. 

Computer terminals at the seaports and airports anyone?

Jesus. We'll have a Covid Compliance department springing up here next with it's own Chief Executive and an army of staff. I'm not joking either.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 hour ago, Debbie said:

This summer, computational biologist Luke Hutchison volunteered for a trial of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. But after the second injection, his arm swelled up to the size of a “goose egg,” Hutchison says. He can't be sure he got the vaccine and not a placebo, but within a few hours, Hutchison, who was healthy and 43, was beset by bone and muscle aches and a 38.9°C fever. “I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes,” he says. “I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: ‘Should I call 911?’”

You are aware that trials are run to identify and understand these sorts of things? It's the whole point of the trial.

And rigorous science and testing, as a lot of people don't seem to be aware, is the reason we don't yet have the vaccine being rolled out. It has to pass the same safety trials as any other. Scientists have a focus on making sure the vaccine is safe and effective. They, for all intents and purposes, may be at odds with business-people in their respective organizations, but it's the way medicine is done.

Yes it is quicker than normal, but if every construction firm globally was interested in getting the prom done, it'd be finished in a much quicker time too. The bureaucracy is being accelerated, not the science.

[Cambon]

12 hours ago, Banker said:

Lots of governments have particularly in Southern Hemisphere eg Australia, New Zealand  have said they will impose restrictions & I haven’t seen anything from EU saying they WONT impose restrictions on non vaccinated residents and certainly airlines will once its fully rolled out

I don't think they will be able to do that. From what the UK health minister was saying last week, there are no plans to vaccinate most children, only the ones with potential health conditions. So if the parents are vaccinated but the children not vaccinated, will NZ turn away the whole family? 

As for airlines it is a business decision. They want packed planes.

[Lxxx]

7 minutes ago, Cambon said:

I don't think they will be able to do that. From what the UK health minister was saying last week, there are no plans to vaccinate most children, only the ones with potential health conditions. So if the parents are vaccinated but the children not vaccinated, will NZ turn away the whole family? 

As for airlines it is a business decision. They want packed planes.

Most airlines should take a sensible halfway house and insist on a vaccination or a negative Covid test, like they do now. 

[Banker]

19 minutes ago, Cambon said:

I don't think they will be able to do that. From what the UK health minister was saying last week, there are no plans to vaccinate most children, only the ones with potential health conditions. So if the parents are vaccinated but the children not vaccinated, will NZ turn away the whole family? 

As for airlines it is a business decision. They want packed planes.

Quantas have already announced a no vaccine no fly policy presumably at government request & NZ and others will probably follow suit, they didn’t say kids would be exempt 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-australia-55048438

Edited November 30, 2020 by Banker

[BenFairfax]

1 hour ago, Cambon said:

I don't think they will be able to do that. From what the UK health minister was saying last week, there are no plans to vaccinate most children, only the ones with potential health conditions. So if the parents are vaccinated but the children not vaccinated, will NZ turn away the whole family? 

As for airlines it is a business decision. They want packed planes.

FT Alphaville considers this question and cannot add much to it, so just quoting it.

1 hour ago, Lxxx said:

Most airlines should take a sensible halfway house and insist on a vaccination or a negative Covid test, like they do now. 

Vaccination protects person themselves from developing COVID disease, whereas negative COVID test protect others. Just follow this logic on and say at some point all IoM residents who wished to be vaccinated had done so, leaving a portion of population for whenever reason who had not. At this point in time what is the appropriate policy decision? In particular, would an uncontrolled transmission of the virus be allowed the occur in population without further policy measures. Though as CDC data details different groups carry different levels of risk but an uncontrolled outbreak would see children admitted to Nobles with COVID. [Naturally, medics would suggest at kids' hospital bed that they have vaccine.]

 

[The Old Git]

6 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

5 day quarantine in the UK from Dec 15th for international arrivals.

Entry test plus test on Day 5.

Test negative, crack on.

Whats the Manx plan?

Not end up like the U.K.?

[Dave Hedgehog]

Things seem to be going well in Jersey too

https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2020-11-30/gary-burgess-jerseys-worst-day-and-lockdown-looms?fbclid=IwAR3mCaUxWDhws-_4mT30TlNGUIfvQ2yHmW08mxupakmkTUVzmYP1cYJvfwA

 

 

 

 

[The Old Git]

7pm press conference about more measures but no lockdown 

Edited November 30, 2020 by The Old Git

[Lxxx]

Absolutely no need to increase measures here. Hold the line gentleman. When the phone rings from London send it to answerphone.