IOM Covid removing restrictions

[AlanShimmin]

29 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

No they are not. Jesus.

They literally are. Their Chief Minister has said it's their last chance to avoid lockdown.

 

"We are on the cusp of lockdown – be under no illusion" - John Lewis Fondré. 

 

Not sure how much clearer he could make it.

Edited November 30, 2020 by AlanShimmin

[Barlow]

1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

No they are not. Jesus.

Fake news?

[AlanShimmin]

7 hours ago, Barlow said:

8 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

No they are not. Jesus.

Fake news?

Maybe they're actually not Jesus, and just very naughty boys and girls for it ignoring social distancing?

[Foot Loose]

20 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

You are aware that trials are run to identify and understand these sorts of things? It's the whole point of the trial.

And rigorous science and testing, as a lot of people don't seem to be aware, is the reason we don't yet have the vaccine being rolled out. It has to pass the same safety trials as any other. Scientists have a focus on making sure the vaccine is safe and effective. They, for all intents and purposes, may be at odds with business-people in their respective organizations, but it's the way medicine is done.

Yes it is quicker than normal, but if every construction firm globally was interested in getting the prom done, it'd be finished in a much quicker time too. The bureaucracy is being accelerated, not the science.

You said: “The bureaucracy is being accelerated, not the science.” You are pathetically wrong on that. I would suggest you document yourself; there is a truly vast literature on the topic.

There have been accidents with vaccines before. The one for the swine flu in 2009 had an incidence of serious adverse events, including some life-long disabilities, that was not justifiable with the protection conferred from the vaccine. The 1976 Swine Flu Vaccine ‘Fiasco’ – the way it is referred to in the US – was a far worse affair.

One peculiarity of these Covid vaccine is that the drug companies had to be granted immunity in the civil courts. With any other vaccine seen before, drug companies are fully liable for any accident.

You are going to roll up your sleeve with the confidence that your are putting your health in the “hands of science”. Ridiculous, considering how that "science" has been corrupted by politics. Hope for the best.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the trade-off is justifiable for the over 50s or the over 60s. The under 40s absolutely don’t need it; at this stage. And those in the middle are in a grey area.

[trmpton]

16 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Don't get me wrong, I think it is insane not to be doing more testing, especially to travellers. But we would know if there were a bunch of people out and about with covid, we'd know. Hopefully, and it mostly appears so, all arrivals are sticking to the rules. Wouldn't take many to screw it, they really should be testing more. Guernsey's day 13 test picked someone up today I read, it's been running for what, a week? Should be doing it also, or the 7, or better still both.

By the sounds of things a party in a hotel bar has caused a problem down Jersey, with no restrictions here it is easy to see how an outbreak could take place. Must have been nearly 2000 people in Castletown Square on Saturday night, and from the pictures Peel too for the light switch on. The pubs were packed after down here. I've not seen a news article recently of someone in trouble for breaking the rules, so it seems people are doing the right thing.

 

14 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Yes we would still have zero. If it were here amongst us we'd sure as hell know about it without the need for testing

Why do people keep saying if it was here we would know.  Do you automatically assume people would be dead on pavements everywhere.

I can’t get my head around this mindset given the very clear and indisputable evidence from guernsey that there can be cases in the community and no one have a clue.

I keep mentioning it, and none gives a counter argument.

One bloke felt well enough that he was convinced he was fit to travel.  Tested positive.  Close contacts and around 10% of them tested positive.

No one was ill, and no indication of it anywhere else on the island despite those people al being at work etc with no masks and no social distancing.

Anyone who thinks here or guernsey don’t have it spreading in the community is nuts. Test everyone tomorrow and there would be cases.

This assumption that “cases” equal illness, hospital and deaths is what is scaring people the world over.

UK estimates last week were that 1% of the entire population were infected at any time.  Barely any of those people even show any symptoms.

 

[Hard Landing]

49 minutes ago, trmpton said:

This assumption that “cases” equal illness, hospital and deaths is what is scaring people the world over.

UK estimates last week were that 1% of the entire population were infected at any time.  Barely any of those people even show any symptoms.

 

UK has second-sharpest GDP decline in Europe. A ship of fools...

In the meantime, economic data released overnight show China's factory activity hitting 10-year high!

One incredibly stupid misconception is that China had a hard lockdown. In reality, 1% of China did lockdown. Wuhan's population is 11 million; versus China's 1.4 billion. Stay-at-home was never mandated in Beijing and Shanghai; only advised, and for a short period of time, a few weeks. The whole of China only shut down its factories for about two weeks.

Nor China jailed its population for Covid-related infractions as much as the Isle of Man did; on a per-capita basis. And China is authoritarian... No other civilised jurisdiction has jailed so much.

We are pitchfork island! Not to say bonkers.

 

[Albert Tatlock]

This is what happens when you put most of your eggs in the 'Service Sector' basket - and 40% of it gets locked down in a pandemic, versus a far lower percentage of manufacturing being locked down.

Also be aware that some of the 'top countries' have pretty low GDPs in the first place.

"A ship of fools..."? This is more a graph for fools - if you don't look far more deeper into the figures.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 hour ago, Foot Loose said:

You said: “The bureaucracy is being accelerated, not the science.” You are pathetically wrong on that. I would suggest you document yourself; there is a truly vast literature on the topic.

There have been accidents with vaccines before. The one for the swine flu in 2009 had an incidence of serious adverse events, including some life-long disabilities, that was not justifiable with the protection conferred from the vaccine. The 1976 Swine Flu Vaccine ‘Fiasco’ – the way it is referred to in the US – was a far worse affair.

One peculiarity of these Covid vaccine is that the drug companies had to be granted immunity in the civil courts. With any other vaccine seen before, drug companies are fully liable for any accident.

You are going to roll up your sleeve with the confidence that your are putting your health in the “hands of science”. Ridiculous, considering how that "science" has been corrupted by politics. Hope for the best.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the trade-off is justifiable for the over 50s or the over 60s. The under 40s absolutely don’t need it; at this stage. And those in the middle are in a grey area.

Please, do enlighten me, I do like a good read.

Speaking at purely the highest level, if the COVID vaccine starts going tits up, it's going to be bad for business. Worse than it would typically be. So for once, the bean counters and scientists are aligned in wanting the vaccine to be safe more than anything else.

You say scientists have been corrupted by the politics, but for it to be some form of conspiratorial process globally, you'd have countries with a huge history of waving their willies at each-other having to collaborate on it. If someone like Putin or Xi Jinping could give the West the uppers and expose them, they certainly would.

You have to remember the Oxford mRNA vaccine isn't new, it was actually based on previous research they'd done, into exactly the approach they're taking. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6630572/

[Cambon]

12 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

No they are not. Jesus.

Something like 240 active cases, 2 in hospital and over 500 in isolation. A large party took place at an hotel last week with many guests. Accounts for the large number isolating and I think the hotel has been closed.

[Amadeus]

Did a video on how the IOM beat Corona the other day and since then heard comments and feedback along the lines of IOM is not diagnosing properly, there are community cases, etc. True or not, the virus certainly is doing strange things to peoples' minds and I do wonder why there isn't more testing over here. Especially after the two week self isolation. One first person account I was told referred to a claim of a diagnosis being ignored after the 14 days. Maybe the nurse was right, maybe the patient was, but the only way to know would be with a test right? 

[quilp]

21 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Something like 240 active cases, 2 in hospital and over 500 in isolation. A large party took place at an hotel last week with many guests. Accounts for the large number isolating and I think the hotel has been closed.

Obligatory masks inevitable too, apparently...

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2020/11/30/islanders-ordered-to-wear-masks-from-beginning-of-december/

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by quilp
Link.

[Hard Landing]

16 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Please, do enlighten me, I do like a good read.

Speaking at purely the highest level, if the COVID vaccine starts going tits up, it's going to be bad for business. Worse than it would typically be. So for once, the bean counters and scientists are aligned in wanting the vaccine to be safe more than anything else.

You say scientists have been corrupted by the politics, but for it to be some form of conspiratorial process globally, you'd have countries with a huge history of waving their willies at each-other having to collaborate on it. If someone like Putin or Xi Jinping could give the West the uppers and expose them, they certainly would.

You have to remember the Oxford mRNA vaccine isn't new, it was actually based on previous research they'd done, into exactly the approach they're taking. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6630572/

The science that produced the vaccines is not corrupted by politics. I did not mean that. The science informing lockdowns, the whole government response and its justifications, is absolutely corrupted by politics.

Young people don't need the vaccines, and should not have them. Those who can possibly be vulnerable to Covid, should have them. It will be more than enough to end the pandemic.

The risk of the vaccine is coming from the platform, rather than it being specifically a Covid vaccine. The Oxford vaccine uses a platform similar to one of the Ebola vaccines. You are correct that this has been under study for a while.There will be some accidents; mainly in the form of neurological illnesses. Note that even the best vaccine has also a manufacturing risk. This is what happened with the Glaxo vaccine at the time of the 2009 swine flu. There were too many cases of narcolepsy with the Glaxo vaccine; the same vaccine formulation but produced by other drug companies did not have those accidents.

I did not mean that there is a global Covid conspiracy. But you are naive if you think that your interest as Covid vaccine recipient is aligned with the interest of the drug companies or with the interest of the government. This kind of misalignment happens at the best of times; it is so much worse in the present situation due to the politicisation of Covid.

 

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

.

Edited December 1, 2020 by AcousticallyChallenged
Mispost

[Lxxx]

2 hours ago, trmpton said:

 

Why do people keep saying if it was here we would know.  Do you automatically assume people would be dead on pavements everywhere.

I can’t get my head around this mindset given the very clear and indisputable evidence from guernsey that there can be cases in the community and no one have a clue.

I keep mentioning it, and none gives a counter argument.

One bloke felt well enough that he was convinced he was fit to travel.  Tested positive.  Close contacts and around 10% of them tested positive.

No one was ill, and no indication of it anywhere else on the island despite those people al being at work etc with no masks and no social distancing.

Anyone who thinks here or guernsey don’t have it spreading in the community is nuts. Test everyone tomorrow and there would be cases.

This assumption that “cases” equal illness, hospital and deaths is what is scaring people the world over.

UK estimates last week were that 1% of the entire population were infected at any time.  Barely any of those people even show any symptoms.

 

This. 100%. The island absolutely has people who would test positive if tested but things are running smoothly, shops open, businesses making money, economy ticking over. Nobles isn't over-run and people are going about their life enjoying themselves at this time of year. It's refreshing.

I don't agree with this government on much at the moment but their testing policy is working so why change it? 

[AlanShimmin]

2 hours ago, Amadeus said:

Did a video on how the IOM beat Corona the other day

With respect, what makes you think that the IOM 'beat' corona?

We've done a reasonable job of keeping it at bay. But we certainly haven't beaten it.