NoTailT Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Can we discuss how we intend to live and achieve eradication at all costs? https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/prof-jonathan-van-tam-warns-19388860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, NoTailT said: Can we discuss how we intend to live and achieve eradication at all costs? https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/prof-jonathan-van-tam-warns-19388860 Who said anything about eradication at all costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTailT Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: Who said anything about eradication at all costs? Eradication - https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/iom-still-adopting-eradication-policy-allinson/ all costs - where we are heading if you continue with eradication. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Lxxx said: Great post. So many unknowns at the moment in relation to this, it's effectively a live trial so we need to make sure we have a plan in place to cater for a whole number of eventualities. What do we do if the first participants in care homes suffer from antibody-dependant enhancement, which worsens the consequences of infection in vaccinated individuals rather than protect. It has happened before in previous coronavirus vaccine trials. We have lots of effective vaccines that have worked in the past and have helped to contribute to the society we all enjoy now, but they all went through much longer rigorous testing. Do we shut up shop again and close the borders if things get worse and not better? Can the island's economy cope in such a situation? What happens if the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading the infection just alleviates symptoms? As we have said before there is no chance of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Lxxx said: It has happened before in previous coronavirus vaccine trials. It's not a vaccine trial. That's an anti-vaxxer perspective. A greater focus and concentration of resources than is usual has allowed an accelerated process to achieve an equivalent trial period in terms of hours. Are you a bit on the anti-vaxxer side of things? I'm remembering this thread from a while back when the internet conspiracy nutters were on about HPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Lxxx said: Great post. So many unknowns at the moment in relation to this, it's effectively a live trial so we need to make sure we have a plan in place to cater for a whole number of eventualities. What do we do if the first participants in care homes suffer from antibody-dependant enhancement, which worsens the consequences of infection in vaccinated individuals rather than protect. It has happened before in previous coronavirus vaccine trials. What happens if the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading the infection just alleviates symptoms? We have lots of effective vaccines that have worked in the past and have helped to contribute to the society we all enjoy now, but they all went through much longer rigorous testing. Do we shut up shop again and close the borders if things get worse and not better? Can the island's economy cope in such a situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Just now, Happier diner said: Lynx. You are talking absolute rubbish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, pongo said: It's not a vaccine trial. That's an anti-vaxxer perspective. A greater focus and concentration of resources than is usual has allowed an accelerated process to achieve an equivalent trial period in terms of hours. You're certainly right about the unusual level of resources, but there's also some truth in that this is effectively a trial as @Lxxx said. However that is true of all vaccine tests and indeed all introductions of new drugs and medical procedures. You don't really know everything until you use them as they are intended to be used. That is why it is so important to have things monitored and recorded properly as the programme is rolled out and I'm not convinced that this is going to happen in the UK and maybe not elsewhere.The problem isn't the side-effects that the anti-vaxxers go on about, but the effectiveness of the vaccine and the best ways to administer it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/5/2020 at 6:47 PM, Nom de plume said: Just stop it, please. Jersey have proved in recent months there is a way. They’ve rightly tightened up recently given the second wave caused by 2.4 million students returning to city centres at the start of September but they’ll relax as soon as possible being the pro-active jurisdiction that they are. I can't help but refer back to this post in light of the news that they'll be no Christmas pints for the people of Jersey this year. I was properly tempted by the arguments, that we should be following their lead, that at least they've actually got a plan etc, but nah. I hate loads about our gov, but credit to them for sticking with it. I might go to the pub on Friday too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Happier diner said: With alternative version for anti-vaxers, just replace (1) above with: 1) Exposure to all COVID-19 genetic code.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, pongo said: It's not a vaccine trial. That's an anti-vaxxer perspective. A greater focus and concentration of resources than is usual has allowed an accelerated process to achieve an equivalent trial period in terms of hours. Are you a bit on the anti-vaxxer side of things? I'm remembering this thread from a while back when the internet conspiracy nutters were on about HPV. I was referring to previous trials. Which were indeed trials. Also what is 'a bit on the anti-vaxxer side of things'? You're either ideologically opposed to vaccines full stop, which anti-vaxxers are, or you're not. I'm not. I've stated above there have been vaccines that have been a great aide to medicine to help us get to where we are today. However we have to treat every new product brought to market as a stand alone test case and every new offering deserves scrutiny. We need to assess efficacy and process every step of the way. If it works then great. If it doesn't we need to be capturing this information to enable us to make bigger picture decisions of the back of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I can't help but refer back to this post in light of the news that they'll be no Christmas pints for the people of Jersey this year. I was properly tempted by the arguments, that we should be following their lead, that at least they've actually got a plan etc, but nah. I hate loads about our gov, but credit to them for sticking with it. I might go to the pub on Friday too. To give some balance - they've had a tourist season and been able to largely come and go as they please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: To give some balance - they've had a tourist season and been able to largely come and go as they please. They also gave everyone £100 and said go out go out spend spend spend everything is fine. And now it has bitten them in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: They also gave everyone £100 and said go out go out spend spend spend everything is fine. And now it has bitten them in the ass. I dunno. Has it? I have friends in Jersey who've been abroad etc this summer. People have been able to visit them. And they've had a tourist season to some degree. The pay off is a few places closed for a few weeks. It's hardly that bad there really either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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