Gladys Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 What the hell is it with people like Roq thinking they have the right to interfere with events that they probably have no involvement in and are not affected by He's a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Rog, if you're not just trolling how come you've ignored any points made to you so far? I'll recap the mains ones: 1) Dangerous to Police? one fatality in 100 years...besides which, isn't policing inherrantly dangerous anyway? 2) Should other dangerous sports be banned too? ALL sports are dangerous in one way or another. Road racing isn't anywhere near the most dangerous sport either. 3) You say all motorsports in the Island should be stopped - what about the hillclimbs, rallys, drag racing where injuries are rare? Should they be stopped too? Is it just the Island's motorsport? What about Formula One Grand Prix? British Superbikes? Go cart racing? 4) Why is the TT different to anyone being injured/killed in their chosen field or hobby? 5) You claim the roads are unsuitable for modern machines - Cret rides them regularly, how is your opinion more valid than his? When was the last time you took a modern motorcycle around the course? If they are unsuitable wouldn't there be many many more accidents on it? Every sunny day sees bikers riding fast around the course here, yet accidents are rare. 6) You don't live here or appear to be affected in any way - so what the hell has it got to do with you anyway? If you can answer some of these, maybe everyone will stop thinking you're simply a troll putting forward an unpopular viewpoint for a reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Isn't a troll an fat, ugly, little guy covered in hair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Isn't a troll an fat, ugly, little guy covered in hair? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just back from the Waitrose run. Can't be a troll, OK on the fat and ugly guy bit not the little nor (sadly) the hair! I'll answer the points in the morning - gorra xxxx-up - I mean private function to attend tonight at the lodge (oops!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Don't forget to give the goat a big smacker from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Rog, if you're not just trolling how come you've ignored any points made to you so far?I'll recap the mains ones: 1) Dangerous to Police? one fatality in 100 years...besides which, isn't policing inherrantly dangerous anyway? Policing is inherently dangerous and so why should it be made even more so simply because a group of selfish people want to continue doing something that has become much more dangerous than it even used to be? 2) Should other dangerous sports be banned too? ALL sports are dangerous in one way or another. Road racing isn't anywhere near the most dangerous sport either. Possibly yes, it depends on the sport and the exposure that it puts other people to. Some dangerous pursuits such as rock climbing, mountaineering, pot holing and the like in my opinion should require that the participants be properly trained, accredited, licensed, and insured if for no other reason than to pay for those participants who require to be rescued when things go wrong. Likewise some places where dangerous sports are engaged in should be banned on the grounds that they present an unacceptable risk and that is the case with motorcycle road racing on the Isle of Man. 3) You say all motorsports in the Island should be stopped - what about the hillclimbs, rallys, drag racing where injuries are rare? Should they be stopped too?Is it just the Island's motorsport? What about Formula One Grand Prix? British Superbikes? Go cart racing? Public roads and involve high power machines without speed and driving restrictions are simply wrong. F1 on a race circuit is another ,matter altogether. 4) Why is the TT different to anyone being injured/killed in their chosen field or hobby? Because of the incompatibility between the motorcycles and the roads. Straw bales simply do not provide the necessary safety measures sufficient to make a safe environment. Add to that the ‘me too’s’ who emulate what they see their ‘heroes’ do and try to do the same often with tragic results. 5) You claim the roads are unsuitable for modern machines - Cret rides them regularly, how is your opinion more valid than his? When was the last time you took a modern motorcycle around the course? If they are unsuitable wouldn't there be many many more accidents on it? Every sunny day sees bikers riding fast around the course here, yet accidents are rare. I have no doubt that Cret drives within the limits of himself and his machine and the road. I also have no doubt that he doesn’t drive in total and continuous competition with others to go as fast as he possibly can,. When did I last take a modern machine around the course? Many years ago and it was a modern machine for its day. 6) You don't live here or appear to be affected in any way - so what the hell has it got to do with you anyway? Two points. Firstly is there some embargo on people expressing opinions about the Island simply because they do not live there? Secondly so many of the people who do get injured are British and end up costing the NHS and so the British tax payer a great deal of unnecessary expense. If you can answer some of these, maybe everyone will stop thinking you're simply a troll putting forward an unpopular viewpoint for a reaction. This is not the first time that I have raised my objections to the TT being allowed to continue. I am well aware that I am a member of a small minority but hopefully that number will grow and the sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Rog Would take issue with you on a number of your responses, but one or two particularly: If you had been over recently during TT or MGP you will have noticed that straw bales are more prevalent than they used to be and in some areas are being replaced by newer material. Its a road race for goods sake, that's the whole point!! You can express your opinion certainly, but expect to be slapped down by people who are more directly affected by the subject matter on which you are commenting. Yes, there are probably a lot of Brits who get injured, but the primary care will be here in the IOM at cost to us, which I do not think anyone here would quibble about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Rog Would take issue with you on a number of your responses, but one or two particularly: If you had been over recently during TT or MGP you will have noticed that straw bales are more prevalent than they used to be and in some areas are being replaced by newer material. Its a road race for goods sake, that's the whole point!! You can express your opinion certainly, but expect to be slapped down by people who are more directly affected by the subject matter on which you are commenting. Yes, there are probably a lot of Brits who get injured, but the primary care will be here in the IOM at cost to us, which I do not think anyone here would quibble about! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was over very recently, the question was when did I last take a bike around the course. Certainly there is more straw but really the protection that it offers is trivial and protects what it surrounds far more than any protection that it may offer to anyone who hits it in excess of 30 MPH. The bottom line is that with all the hard protrusions at the road side the course is exceptionally and I would say unacceptably dangerous. Maybe there comes a time when the performance of motorcycles is just too much for them to be used in road racing, at least on exceptionally dangerous roads and in my opinion that time came several years ago. As for being slapped down – not a problem. If a person expresses an honestly held but unpopular opinion then they must expect to take what follows HOWEVER it is always just possible that others might see things in the same light and a groundswell start that would result on some action that might speed up the issue being addressed. In this case I do hope that this proves to be the case. As regards the cost falling mainly on the Island, that I doubt,. If the consequential cost of a fatality are considered then it will fall on the country of residence of where the person who died lived, similarly the consequential cost of injury will fall mostly on the country of residence of the injured party. The all-up costs of a fatality are in the region of 1 million pounds based on figures from http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-fact-sheet-2.htm A serious injury has a figure of £135,000 and a less serious injury iro £10,350, not the immediate costs of treatment, but the whole life cost of the injury including convalescence and post trauma care. NOTE – these costs are at a 2001 base and so now will run considerably higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I have the solution. As the schools are on holiday during TT week why don't we let the 6th form girls from Ramsey Grammar take over the police duties so that the police can get on with fining drivers for parking illegally? I liked the comments on today's Moanin Line ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Tell you what why don't we ban walking just in case people get blisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Rog I don't think the web site you directed me to actually states those costs in the way you represent them; another example of wildly misrepresenting stats to support your off the wall opinion! As any actuary will tell you, it is cheaper to kill someone than to seriously injure them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Rog I don't think the web site you directed me to actually states those costs in the way you represent them; another example of wildly misrepresenting stats to support your off the wall opinion! As any actuary will tell you, it is cheaper to kill someone than to seriously injure them! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The costs are the aggregated costs of fatal and non fatal accidents. They therefore include all of the knock-on costs including ongoing support to the family by state benefit payments and so forth. Although some of the costs will fall on the Island, once the inquest has been held the subsequent costs (which will be the major proportion) will fall on wherever the family of the deceased live. It is British taxes that pay Benefit payments to British families. Far from being wildly misrepresenting statistics by choosing RTA data the costs will be remarkably close to those incurred from an accident during the race and as near as dam it to the costs created by an accident to the general public either as spectators or as an indirect result of the race meet, specifically mad driving by those who try to emulate the race riders. But that really isn’t the major point. The issue is quite simply that with the recognised incompatibility between high powered motor cycles and Manx roads it is past time that the yearly massacre and blood bath came to an end. As I wrote earlier on this thread, there are some times when legislation must be introduced I order to protect people from themselves especially when their actions can and often does result in injury to others. My point is made. I seem to be the only person on this forum who sees things in this way. I fervently hope that in the near future more and more people come to their senses and ban what now amounts to a blood sport. EOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Then it's the UKs responsibility to stop them coming over if they don't want to risk a bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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