Kopek Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Brief history of the Manx involvement in the Slave Trade on MR website now. Brief but relevant at this time. It would be very insular of us to think that the World wide condemnation of this, which is just the latest event, is nothing to do with the Island.. Rodney King..........George Floyd! Can any of us remember the names of all to others who were victims of dubious US police killings. Perhaps we'll remember George Floyd because of these protests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I think of Eric Garner, the man from New York who was arrested because he was selling cigarettes individually. Not only was his killing horrific (under frighteningly similar circumstances to George Floyd) but there was no substantive policy reform as a result - we really should not be penalising people for such "crimes" with locking them up in cages. Even the awful local politicians in power at that time in New York, Bill De Blasio (city mayor) and Andrew Cuomo (state governor), were re-elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I used to be amazed at the constant talk of race in the us media. Every news report used to mention the race of the criminal, victim, politician etc. I used to think it was needless and making the problems worse. But I’ve been going there every year for a few years now, and have come to realise that it’s basically still a segregated society. Unofficial apartheid. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Kopek said: Brief history of the Manx involvement in the Slave Trade on MR website now. Brief but relevant at this time. I hope they put the film mentioned online. Looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I'm still wrestling with all of the information and emotions that have been expressed over the past few days. I think awareness and understanding is probably the biggest message? I can't see anything that I personally can do to make things different, and I'm sure that nobody on here has, like me, ever willingly made life difficult for a black person, or any colour for that matter? I'm certainly not going to apologise for being white but I have long recognised the deep injustices and violence meted out by whites over the centuries, upon other races. I read something which attempted to justify the colonial ill treatment of blacks and others which stated that it was how they treated each other. They killed each other mercilessly and enslaved each other with no conscience. Around the time when the British were putting down the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya, it was Enoch Powell who condemned the way we, as a civilised nation behaved towards them. He stated that we had no excuse and should treat native populations with the same respect that we would treat people at home. We may have abolished slavery first among nations, but we had a few dark episodes in the 50s and 60s. Some of those responsible were also involved in the Ballykelly and Bloody Sunday massacres. They learned their trade well. Terrible that it was, I suspect that George Floyd was killed, not solely because he was black but because he was a big man and the police were scared of him. It may be that the police officer had a hatred of black people, but that has yet to be confirmed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Max Power said: Terrible that it was, I suspect that George Floyd was killed, not solely because he was black but because he was a big man and the police were scared of him. It may be that the police officer had a hatred of black people, but that has yet to be confirmed. From the video it seems to me that the primary reason George Floyd died is that the officer didn't care if he lived. Whether that was for race or other reasons, obviously can't be ascertained from a video. But it does seem to happen disproportionately more frequently to black people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Max Power said: Terrible that it was, I suspect that George Floyd was killed, not solely because he was black but because he was a big man and the police were scared of him. It may be that the police officer had a hatred of black people, but that has yet to be confirmed. Don’t think that applies in this case as he was physically well under control, but I think most of the police shootings can be attributed to fear first and foremost. The amount of guns in that country makes every encounter scary. Police must live in constant fear. They have their guns ready for every day routine stuff. The fact that it happens disproportionately to black people shows another problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Mr. Sausages said: Don’t think that applies in this case as he was physically well under control, but I think most of the police shootings can be attributed to fear first and foremost. The amount of guns in that country makes every encounter scary. Police must live in constant fear. They have their guns ready for every day routine stuff. The fact that it happens disproportionately to black people shows another problem. Police training also hypes this up. "Every day could be your last" is drummed into them. It's no wonder their first reaction is to shoot at things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Mr. Sausages said: Don’t think that applies in this case as he was physically well under control, but I think most of the police shootings can be attributed to fear first and foremost. The amount of guns in that country makes every encounter scary. Police must live in constant fear. They have their guns ready for every day routine stuff. The fact that it happens disproportionately to black people shows another problem. Yes, it is disproportionate statistically but numerically more whites are killed by the police. Like anything, statistics can be played with to show what you want. When you bore down to the cause, there are significantly more crimes committed by black people, including violent crimes. I think the causes of this, if addresed, would be the biggest change we could see? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Chinahand said: I hope they put the film mentioned online. Looks interesting. I haven't found it yet, but there's an interesting fact-sheet that MNH produced at the time. Frances Wilkins' book that it was based on seems to be out of print though you can still get copies, at a cost through Amazon or more cheaply direct from the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTucker Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Max Power said: Yes, it is disproportionate statistically but numerically more whites are killed by the police. Like anything, statistics can be played with to show what you want. When you bore down to the cause, there are significantly more crimes committed by black people, including violent crimes. I think the causes of this, if addresed, would be the biggest change we could see? Numbers dont tell the truth. incarceration is big business https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5895028/ Edited June 9, 2020 by TomTucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, TomTucker said: Numbers dont tell the truth... Really? What do they tell then? Facts about crime-rates not facts anymore now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 57 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: Don’t think that applies in this case as he was physically well under control, but I think most of the police shootings can be attributed to fear first and foremost. The amount of guns in that country makes every encounter scary. Police must live in constant fear. They have their guns ready for every day routine stuff. The fact that it happens disproportionately to black people shows another problem. Watch the episode of Last Week Tonight circulated by Teapot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Max Power said: Yes, it is disproportionate statistically but numerically more whites are killed by the police. That's an interesting comment and is something I took as fact having read the same thing earlier in one of the threads, but if I understand correctly there's no official US government data on this at all. In fact the US Dept of Justice is breaking the law by not providing the data. Have a read of this: https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/deaths-police-custody-united-states/ And then this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ As I said in a previous post the elephant is bad policing and the lack of political will to tackle the problem. And until that's sorted we'll most likely see much of the same, all 'colours' included. ETA: Which begs the question, is UK government compelled to provide such data? Edited June 9, 2020 by Andy Onchan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, TomTucker said: Numbers dont tell the truth. incarceration is big business https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5895028/ Very true, and it is a conjoined issue. Many are locked up for insignificant crimes that even a Manx Deemster would be unwilling to put them away for. 2 hours ago, Mr. Sausages said: Don’t think that applies in this case as he was physically well under control, but I think most of the police shootings can be attributed to fear first and foremost. The amount of guns in that country makes every encounter scary. Police must live in constant fear. They have their guns ready for every day routine stuff. The fact that it happens disproportionately to black people shows another problem. Yes, guns are the biggest issue. If the police attend anything at all, even a traffic violation, they have to be ready for the possibility that someone is armed. That isn't condusive to good policing or their well being. 1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said: That's an interesting comment and is something I took as fact having read the same thing earlier in one of the threads, but if I understand correctly there's no official US government data on this at all. In fact the US Dept of Justice is breaking the law by not providing the data. Have a read of this: https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/deaths-police-custody-united-states/ And then this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ As I said in a previous post the elephant is bad policing and the lack of political will to tackle the problem. And until that's sorted we'll most likely see much of the same, all 'colours' included. ETA: Which begs the question, is UK government compelled to provide such data? I believe the FBI keep those statistics? Yes, it is bad policing with extenuating circumstances. The right to bear arms has a lot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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