Black Lives Matter

[Scotty]

8 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

I cannot like posts either......must be down to Brexit, Covid 19 or Black lives matter...

“ like”

[Roger Mexico]

33 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You talking about covid deaths? Doesn’t explain why 18/19 doctors to die from covid were BAME. 

I'm not sure that is actually true.  An article in the Telegraph appears to say "Of 29 British doctors who have died of coronavirus during the ... to have died because of Covid-19, 63.9 per cent were black or from an ethnic minority" - which is perhaps 18 out of 29.  And a surprisingly high proportion of doctors are BAME - according to the latest figures only 56.6% of doctors are white, so 43.4% are BAME.  Which makes the jump to 63.9% a lot less than from the 14% or so in the general population.  

Furthermore the percentage of BAME doctors is even higher in more junior roles and they are probably also more likely to be in cities where COVID rates are higher (a lot of the BAME effects disappear when normalised for where people live).  There has also been some feeling that BAME staff are the one being put on the front line, by a management that is overwhelmingly white.

There may be a further factor as well.  Those dying are mainly older doctors (as you would expect) and it could be that this group is more disproportionately male among BAME doctors than among white doctors in the same age bands.  This would also skew the figures due to higher male morbidity.

[Shake me up Judy]

 

 

[gettafa]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

I hope you're right. Except you're not, already.

Peaceful demonstrations turning vandalistic and nasty, stuff being chucked at police and that.

Maybe it's all gonna be ok.

[wrighty]

45 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I'm not sure that is actually true.  An article in the Telegraph appears to say "Of 29 British doctors who have died of coronavirus during the ... to have died because of Covid-19, 63.9 per cent were black or from an ethnic minority" - which is perhaps 18 out of 29.  And a surprisingly high proportion of doctors are BAME - according to the latest figures only 56.6% of doctors are white, so 43.4% are BAME.  Which makes the jump to 63.9% a lot less than from the 14% or so in the general population.  

Furthermore the percentage of BAME doctors is even higher in more junior roles and they are probably also more likely to be in cities where COVID rates are higher (a lot of the BAME effects disappear when normalised for where people live).  There has also been some feeling that BAME staff are the one being put on the front line, by a management that is overwhelmingly white.

There may be a further factor as well.  Those dying are mainly older doctors (as you would expect) and it could be that this group is more disproportionately male among BAME doctors than among white doctors in the same age bands.  This would also skew the figures due to higher male morbidity.

I wasn’t planning on a full analysis of why covid may affect BAME doctors more, I was just using the dead doctors argument to refute the idea that it was all due to social class, even though it turned out that Tom Tucker was talking about something else. 
 

18/19 comes from the British Medical Journal 2nd May, P130. It’s certainly not beyond the BMA to cherry pick figures to suit their political agenda, but BMJ is generally considered to be a reliable source. The causes are as you say multi-factorial. 

[gettafa]

 

13 hours ago, HeliX said:

13 hours ago, gettafa said:

Graffiti and vandalism

Pulling down statues

With impunity. It's a rush. Oh, it's fun and that

Thin end of the wedge

 

It wouldn't take long before its someone tagged as a racist to string up and throw in the river will it. Or just someone peering out of their window to see what is going. That's UK.

Well, there are over 40,000 racists on the Isle of Man apparently. It's a 50-50 chance eh. Start with the gammons, so make the odds even better, say 75-25.

 

What a fucking world these people want

What a fucking world

 

@Helix made a simple reply to my post. (I have scaled down the picture for ease of viewing)

It illustrates the tactics used by Helix. In this case, adjust the angle, make out someone has said something they haven't, expand or exaggerate and then denigrate it . . .  more easy to try and blow it out of the sky. 

I mentioned nothing of 'slippery slope'. The phrase I used was 'thin end of the wedge'. And I listed why I used that phrase.

Helix didn't like that. It hit a nerve, as it is clearly the case and it is something we witness all the time in our lives. How things change. How things are changed. 

Perhaps a better analogy would be 'ratchet', as this implies things change without being able to be reversed, rightly or wrongly.

So Helix picked up the old Slippery Slope Fallacy' to disparage what I said. A slippery slope is a severe, sudden unstoppable movement and not appropriate in this situation (although some would argue it is).

 

So I say again, what we are seeing is the thin end of a wedge. Or rather yeah, a ratchet. 

And with every move we have to be careful and fully consider our actions. Before the hammer taps in that wedge or that ratchet is turned.

Edited June 8, 2020 by gettafa

[HeliX]

33 minutes ago, gettafa said:

 

@Helix made a simple reply to my post. (I have scaled down the picture for ease of viewing)

It illustrates the tactics used by Helix. In this case, adjust the angle, make out someone has said something they haven't, expand or exaggerate and then denigrate it . . .  more easy to try and blow it out of the sky. 

I mentioned nothing of 'slippery slope'. The phrase I used was 'thin end of the wedge'. And I listed why I used that phrase.

Helix didn't like that. It hit a nerve, as it is clearly the case and it is something we witness all the time in our lives. How things change. How things are changed. 

Perhaps a better analogy would be 'ratchet', as this implies things change without being able to be reversed, rightly or wrongly.

So Helix picked up the old Slippery Slope Fallacy' to disparage what I said. A slippery slope is a severe, sudden unstoppable movement and not appropriate in this situation (although some would argue it is).

 

So I say again, what we are seeing is the thin end of a wedge. Or rather yeah, a ratchet. 

And with every move we have to be careful and fully consider our actions. Before the hammer taps in that wedge or that ratchet is turned.

"Helix didn't like that. It hit a nerve, as it is clearly the case and it is something we witness all the time in our lives. How things change. How things are changed. "

I enjoyed the long post theorising my motive, but actually I just thought it was kinda ridiculous you went from "some riots turn violent" to "these people want a world where you can string up gammon" in a few short sentences.

[gettafa]

You've done it again though. Just as I 'theorised'. You do it with others.

You have misquoted and exaggerated to denigrate a point.

 

[TheTeapot]

Here, got a spare half hour? Watch this, it's John Oliver going all in from last night on the police. It's very interesting, features a bit of history along with the situation today, attacks all sides and occasionally raises a laugh. Probably NSFW as there is a fair bit of swearing, but just watch it OK?

 

(works for me, but sometimes LWT is geolocked. It's up on torrent sites though if it doesn't work)

[HeliX]

12 minutes ago, gettafa said:

You've done it again though. Just as I 'theorised'. You do it with others.

You have misquoted and exaggerated to denigrate a point.

 

Misquoted?

"Graffiti and vandalism

Pulling down statues

With impunity. It's a rush. Oh, it's fun and that

Thin end of the wedge

It wouldn't take long before its someone tagged as a racist to string up and throw in the river will it. Or just someone peering out of their window to see what is going. That's UK.

Well, there are over 40,000 racists on the Isle of Man apparently. It's a 50-50 chance eh. Start with the gammons, so make the odds even better, say 75-25.

What a fucking world these people want

What a fucking world"

 

There's what you wrote. Here's what I summarised it to:

 "some riots turn violent" to "these people want a world where you can string up gammon"

 

I'm not sure I see where I'm being inaccurate.

 

[gettafa]

As pointed out by John Wright on another thread:

It's a mindset thing. Particularly so in your case.  I'm not sure you would understand.

Edited June 8, 2020 by gettafa

[HeliX]

30 minutes ago, gettafa said:

As pointed out by John Wright on another thread:

It's a mindset thing. Particularly so in your case.  I'm not sure you would understand.

You could assist?

[d.r]

On 6/3/2020 at 10:30 AM, Stu Peters said:

I expect the protest will be in front of the U.S. Embassy in Douglas - otherwise an IOM protest about police brutality in Murrica makes no sense except as a virtue signalling snowstorm.

In other news (saw this on a graph earlier) , in 2018 the USA had around fifty thousand white on black violent crimes, compared with four hundred thousand black on black and around 550,000 black on white violent crimes.

ALL Lives Matter!

No one went around saying ALL Lives Matter! before Black Lives Matter was a popular slogan. When this is used today, it is not a general statement of benign do-gooder fact, it is a direct rejection to a movement trying desperately to highlight a horrific problem in our society. It’s like walking around with swastika on your chest announcing it’s an ancient symbol of peace. Well, yes it is, good for you, but now it also has another meaning — so does ALL Lives Matter! So stop using it if you think that’s all it means. 

Black Lives Matter.

[WTF]

Yawn

[HeliX]

6 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Here, got a spare half hour? Watch this, it's John Oliver going all in from last night on the police. It's very interesting, features a bit of history along with the situation today, attacks all sides and occasionally raises a laugh. Probably NSFW as there is a fair bit of swearing, but just watch it OK?

 

(works for me, but sometimes LWT is geolocked. It's up on torrent sites though if it doesn't work)

This commentary on policing is basically what I've been trying to say the whole time, only more concise. And considerably more sweary.